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Linus from LTT recently reversed a $90k wire he was tricked into sending after a contractor was hacked. It's not like the destination of a fraudulent wire is an

by atchoo 4y ago

Linus from LTT recently reversed a $90k wire he was tricked into sending after a contractor was hacked. It's not like the destination of a fraudulent wire is an anonymous blackhole. In this case it was a wire to another Canadian bank. The money was frozen during an investigation and then returned a week or two later.

politician 4y ago
That only worked because the funds didn’t bounce somewhere else first. Wire transfers are final.
- otterley 4y ago
  The wire transfer transaction may be final, but that’s not the end of the story. A court can subsequently compel the receiving bank or party to send the funds back to the sender.
  - politician 4y ago
    That’s true, but depending on the path, funds might end up in various jurisdictions, complicating the recovery story.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    The same thing applies to crypto.
    - otterley 4y ago
      Do you always know who you’re trading with in crypto? How do you identify the counterparty to make the demand from? This isn’t a problem with ordinary transactions, where the two parties have regulated organizations making the trade on their respective behalf. Even in stock trades, where the counterparties are anonymous, there is a mechanism for reversing trades because the system was designed for it.
- multjoy 4y ago
  Until the two banks agree that it isn't. Errors happen all the time. https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/no-payments-are-final/ https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/no-payments-are-final/
  - politician 4y ago
    “The finality of wires is path dependent” is a statement that I would agree with.
jimmydorry 4y ago
Linus heavily implied that he had an "in" at a senior level that could make an investigation happen and get the funds frozen before they were moved. I don't know about you, but I certainly don't have that level of power. The destination of a fraudulent wire will be known, but that money is practically unrecoverable if it takes another hop or gets withdrawn.

by atchoo 4y ago

politician 4y ago

That only worked because the funds didn’t bounce somewhere else first. Wire transfers are final.

otterley 4y ago
The wire transfer transaction may be final, but that’s not the end of the story. A court can subsequently compel the receiving bank or party to send the funds back to the sender.
- politician 4y ago
  That’s true, but depending on the path, funds might end up in various jurisdictions, complicating the recovery story.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  The same thing applies to crypto.
  - otterley 4y ago
    Do you always know who you’re trading with in crypto? How do you identify the counterparty to make the demand from? This isn’t a problem with ordinary transactions, where the two parties have regulated organizations making the trade on their respective behalf. Even in stock trades, where the counterparties are anonymous, there is a mechanism for reversing trades because the system was designed for it.
multjoy 4y ago
Until the two banks agree that it isn't. Errors happen all the time. https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/no-payments-are-final/ https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/no-payments-are-final/
- politician 4y ago
  “The finality of wires is path dependent” is a statement that I would agree with.

jimmydorry 4y ago

Linus heavily implied that he had an "in" at a senior level that could make an investigation happen and get the funds frozen before they were moved. I don't know about you, but I certainly don't have that level of power. The destination of a fraudulent wire will be known, but that money is practically unrecoverable if it takes another hop or gets withdrawn.