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TL;DR Is this sort of like "I forgot my password"? If I put 100 $20 bills into a paper shredder, will someone make me whole? Of course not, yet when the anal

by anamax 5y ago

TL;DR Is this sort of like "I forgot my password"? If I put 100 $20 bills into a paper shredder, will someone make me whole? Of course not, yet when the analogous thing happens in crypto, that's somehow an argument crypto is fatally flawed.

jddddd 5y ago
Yes, if you can recover 51% of a bill and send it to the treasury they will make you whole. Not a perfect system and obviously can't help if both shred it and light it on fire but there is a recovery mechanism. Crypto has none, it's a feature to some but a deal breaker for most.
sailfast 5y ago
That’s a straw man. You’re giving your money to a vendor expecting a return, and instead your money is just unusable forever sitting in front of you as a monument to test coverage because of a bug in code. The thing that caused the problem is supposedly the key feature of the system (immutability). This is why people argue crypto is flawed.
pat2man 5y ago
Weird analogy because yes, if you put money in a paper shredder (at least in the US) the Mint will indeed allow you to send in your shredded money and receive cash in return: https://www.bep.gov/services/mutilated-currency-redemption/submit-a-request https://www.bep.gov/services/mutilated-currency-redemption/s...
- jfk13 5y ago
  Although they might refuse if they suspect "...a pattern of intentional mutilation...", so I wouldn't recommend shredding your savings just to demonstrate the system.
burmanm 5y ago
Unless this has changed in the recent times, then yes you will get your money back as whole. If you have all the pieces, the bank (at least in Finland central bank will) will trade it to a new one and the old one is demolished. It is pretty normal for money to get damaged and reissued.
jaclaz 5y ago
It seems to me like the comparison needs to be tweaked a bit (long before the possible recovery via the US central bank or treasury comes into play), this was a sort of guarantee/escrow, so let's imagine that you are told to put your 100 $20 bills into a safety deposit box, if you win the auction you give your key to the seller when you get the object, otherwise you can open the box and get your money back. Only the deposit box has a sliding plate at the bottom that may (or may not) be randomly pulled out and when/if this happens your bills will fall into a shredder. Would you make the deposit knowing how this particular box is made/managed? Or would you think that this particular kind of deposit box is flawed? Point is that you were told nothing in advance about the sliding plate and the shredder.
wpietri 5y ago
Ah yes. When crypto works, even barely, it's the magic perfect future financial system. When it doesn't work, it's entirely the user's fault and they are stupid doo-doo heads who deserve the blame. Such a classic "heads I win, tails you lose," dynamic.

by anamax 5y ago

jddddd 5y ago

Yes, if you can recover 51% of a bill and send it to the treasury they will make you whole. Not a perfect system and obviously can't help if both shred it and light it on fire but there is a recovery mechanism. Crypto has none, it's a feature to some but a deal breaker for most.

sailfast 5y ago

That’s a straw man. You’re giving your money to a vendor expecting a return, and instead your money is just unusable forever sitting in front of you as a monument to test coverage because of a bug in code. The thing that caused the problem is supposedly the key feature of the system (immutability). This is why people argue crypto is flawed.

pat2man 5y ago

Weird analogy because yes, if you put money in a paper shredder (at least in the US) the Mint will indeed allow you to send in your shredded money and receive cash in return: https://www.bep.gov/services/mutilated-currency-redemption/submit-a-request https://www.bep.gov/services/mutilated-currency-redemption/s...

jfk13 5y ago
Although they might refuse if they suspect "...a pattern of intentional mutilation...", so I wouldn't recommend shredding your savings just to demonstrate the system.

burmanm 5y ago

Unless this has changed in the recent times, then yes you will get your money back as whole. If you have all the pieces, the bank (at least in Finland central bank will) will trade it to a new one and the old one is demolished. It is pretty normal for money to get damaged and reissued.

jaclaz 5y ago

It seems to me like the comparison needs to be tweaked a bit (long before the possible recovery via the US central bank or treasury comes into play), this was a sort of guarantee/escrow, so let's imagine that you are told to put your 100 $20 bills into a safety deposit box, if you win the auction you give your key to the seller when you get the object, otherwise you can open the box and get your money back. Only the deposit box has a sliding plate at the bottom that may (or may not) be randomly pulled out and when/if this happens your bills will fall into a shredder. Would you make the deposit knowing how this particular box is made/managed? Or would you think that this particular kind of deposit box is flawed? Point is that you were told nothing in advance about the sliding plate and the shredder.

wpietri 5y ago

Ah yes. When crypto works, even barely, it's the magic perfect future financial system. When it doesn't work, it's entirely the user's fault and they are stupid doo-doo heads who deserve the blame. Such a classic "heads I win, tails you lose," dynamic.