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What is this in response to? Do you think Yanis Varoufakis is unfamiliar with undergrad-tier “communism has failed every time” bromides?

CryptoPunk 4y ago
This is an undeniable fact, not some "undergrad-tier bromide" as left-wing grifters dismiss it as. Even now, after a century of failure, some dogmatic utopianists won't admit that their ideas don't work. What is most tragic in all this is that it takes experimenting obviously bad ideas - whether it be socialism, or lockdowns - on billions of people, and producing hell on Earth, before a certain class of individuals will admit they are wrong.
walkhour 4y ago
This is a response to the illusion that we know there's a better alternative to capitalism
- turtledove 4y ago
  It can be the case that we no know better alternative while simultaneously being true that capitalism and freedom are opposed.
  - CryptoPunk 4y ago
    Opposition to capitalism consistently produces less free societies.
    - jerojero 4y ago
      There might be many factors involved in this. Not least of them, the influence of capitalist countries over alternative societies. Chile for example was crushed internally and externally when it tried to move away from the system they had at the time. Though inflation did raise there was a huge campaign against the government to purposefully make it fail. Is this a failure of socialism? Any new system will naturally find resistance because it has to break the old one and make the new one work. Though, in reality, these experiments even if they fail change perspectives of people. When Germany had to be put back together they didn't get rid of everything that east Germany was. And these ideas then spread through out the rest of Europe. And the world. And finally, it might be misleading to look at things from the perspective of a person in a developed society and go "yes this system is great!" When on the other hand, this very same system, is producing and reproducing extreme global inequality. El Congo and other extremely poor and unstable countries in Africa, as well as in central and south america are all capitalist countries... theyre just the other side of the coin. And don't get me started on other externalities! I'm sure if birds and monkeys in the amazon could talk they would say they would rather see humans go back to primitivism. Though that's really a question about progress and industrialisation; but it's a question that capitalism has a really hard time dealing with. So, I guess I simply dont think the statement "opposition to capitalism consistently produces less free societies." is a statement that should be done so freely. When something doesn't work we should ask why and what can be done better, not simply shrug and keep ourselves covered in mud. I think the future will look closer to socialism than capitalism, but ofc, that's just my opinion. If you want to read more on global inequality I recommend pikettys book "capital and ideology".
      - CryptoPunk 4y ago
        The tyranny imposed in societies where socialist doctrines became dominant was simply staggering, and beyond anything that could be blamed on foreign meddling. This tyranny was all-encompassing because socialism demonizes entire classes of voluntary interaction on the basis that they are inherently exploitative, and thus despite all appears to the contrary, nonconsensual. Socialism is an ideological dogma instead of a sober commentary on reality. Because of this shoddy foundation, socialism ends up promoting subordination to the state and top-down order, and this is fundamentally less functional and more tyrannical than a society based on the principle of individual rights and emergent order.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  Do you think we get a vote on what which flavor of capitalism we get next, or if capitalism decides to change into something else as Yanis sees it?

CryptoPunk 4y ago

This is an undeniable fact, not some "undergrad-tier bromide" as left-wing grifters dismiss it as. Even now, after a century of failure, some dogmatic utopianists won't admit that their ideas don't work. What is most tragic in all this is that it takes experimenting obviously bad ideas - whether it be socialism, or lockdowns - on billions of people, and producing hell on Earth, before a certain class of individuals will admit they are wrong.

walkhour 4y ago

This is a response to the illusion that we know there's a better alternative to capitalism

turtledove 4y ago
It can be the case that we no know better alternative while simultaneously being true that capitalism and freedom are opposed.
- CryptoPunk 4y ago
  Opposition to capitalism consistently produces less free societies.
  - jerojero 4y ago
    There might be many factors involved in this. Not least of them, the influence of capitalist countries over alternative societies. Chile for example was crushed internally and externally when it tried to move away from the system they had at the time. Though inflation did raise there was a huge campaign against the government to purposefully make it fail. Is this a failure of socialism? Any new system will naturally find resistance because it has to break the old one and make the new one work. Though, in reality, these experiments even if they fail change perspectives of people. When Germany had to be put back together they didn't get rid of everything that east Germany was. And these ideas then spread through out the rest of Europe. And the world. And finally, it might be misleading to look at things from the perspective of a person in a developed society and go "yes this system is great!" When on the other hand, this very same system, is producing and reproducing extreme global inequality. El Congo and other extremely poor and unstable countries in Africa, as well as in central and south america are all capitalist countries... theyre just the other side of the coin. And don't get me started on other externalities! I'm sure if birds and monkeys in the amazon could talk they would say they would rather see humans go back to primitivism. Though that's really a question about progress and industrialisation; but it's a question that capitalism has a really hard time dealing with. So, I guess I simply dont think the statement "opposition to capitalism consistently produces less free societies." is a statement that should be done so freely. When something doesn't work we should ask why and what can be done better, not simply shrug and keep ourselves covered in mud. I think the future will look closer to socialism than capitalism, but ofc, that's just my opinion. If you want to read more on global inequality I recommend pikettys book "capital and ideology".
    - CryptoPunk 4y ago
      The tyranny imposed in societies where socialist doctrines became dominant was simply staggering, and beyond anything that could be blamed on foreign meddling. This tyranny was all-encompassing because socialism demonizes entire classes of voluntary interaction on the basis that they are inherently exploitative, and thus despite all appears to the contrary, nonconsensual. Socialism is an ideological dogma instead of a sober commentary on reality. Because of this shoddy foundation, socialism ends up promoting subordination to the state and top-down order, and this is fundamentally less functional and more tyrannical than a society based on the principle of individual rights and emergent order.
sangnoir 4y ago
Do you think we get a vote on what which flavor of capitalism we get next, or if capitalism decides to change into something else as Yanis sees it?