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Hard to tamper with data loggers also benefit from the Blockchain. There are lots of industries where tamper proof records are valuable and record keeping is d

by xupybd 5y ago

Hard to tamper with data loggers also benefit from the Blockchain. There are lots of industries where tamper proof records are valuable and record keeping is distributed.

elsjaako 5y ago
I get the value of having a chain of "blocks" of data, but that could also describe git. I don't see the added value of proof of work or proof of stake here. Why isn't putting that data (or a hash of it) in a publicly available git repository just as good? You can even publish the newest branch hash in the newspaper everyday if you want.
- xupybd 5y ago
  Oh in this instance it's not about having a public record. It's about every transaction having a hash of the previous. Then it gets hard to forge old data without altering all records after the forgery. It's still possible but takes more work and can make the tampering easier to discover. And for data loggers not connected to the internet this helps. It would be just as good to put it in a central repo if there was an internet connection available. But if you're logging a refrigerator temp on a container traveling between countries there isn't going to be a cheap option for internet.
  - FabHK 5y ago
    > It's about every transaction having a hash of the previous. We understand that... GP even said: >> I get the value of having a chain of "blocks" of data
  - gravitycorn 5y ago
    Wait, you never did a git rebase? How does a consensus algorithm help when the nodes are not connected to the p2p network?
    - blablabla123 5y ago
      It's transactional anyway so it's possible to make the file/dir structure as merge friendly as possible. In the simplest case just 1 file per operation with unique filenames. Speaking of trusted parties, (multiple) of those could be set up using a chain of trust in every network segment that do as much cross-signing/-verification as deemed necessary. Once it goes online again, the performed operations could go on-chain.
  - elsjaako 5y ago
    That's why I mentioned git, not just putting it in a text file. Every git commit contains a hash of all the previous commits, and is itself referred to by a hash. So if you change an old commit, all commits descending from that get a new hash, and so a new identity. If you publish the latest hash in the newspaper, you've locked down all the previous commits also.
    - xupybd 5y ago
      Sorry my mistake. I missed that. I was only thinking of the utility of publishing to an external source as a means of verifying history. You are correct.
phire 5y ago
Such usecases actually run into an economic problem. You can't just create a proof-of-work blockchain to hold your records. That blockchain also have to be a functioning economy with a large enough market cap to pay out mining rewards that are large enough to make a 51% attack economically nonviable. If you fail to do so, or the economy falls apart, all tamper-resistance just disappears. It actually ends up being cheaper just to trust a group of authorities, and pay auditors to make sure they are being trustworthy.

by xupybd 5y ago

Hard to tamper with data loggers also benefit from the Blockchain. There are lots of industries where tamper proof records are valuable and record keeping is distributed.

elsjaako 5y ago

I get the value of having a chain of "blocks" of data, but that could also describe git. I don't see the added value of proof of work or proof of stake here. Why isn't putting that data (or a hash of it) in a publicly available git repository just as good? You can even publish the newest branch hash in the newspaper everyday if you want.

xupybd 5y ago
Oh in this instance it's not about having a public record. It's about every transaction having a hash of the previous. Then it gets hard to forge old data without altering all records after the forgery. It's still possible but takes more work and can make the tampering easier to discover. And for data loggers not connected to the internet this helps. It would be just as good to put it in a central repo if there was an internet connection available. But if you're logging a refrigerator temp on a container traveling between countries there isn't going to be a cheap option for internet.
- FabHK 5y ago
  > It's about every transaction having a hash of the previous. We understand that... GP even said: >> I get the value of having a chain of "blocks" of data
- gravitycorn 5y ago
  Wait, you never did a git rebase? How does a consensus algorithm help when the nodes are not connected to the p2p network?
  - blablabla123 5y ago
    It's transactional anyway so it's possible to make the file/dir structure as merge friendly as possible. In the simplest case just 1 file per operation with unique filenames. Speaking of trusted parties, (multiple) of those could be set up using a chain of trust in every network segment that do as much cross-signing/-verification as deemed necessary. Once it goes online again, the performed operations could go on-chain.
- elsjaako 5y ago
  That's why I mentioned git, not just putting it in a text file. Every git commit contains a hash of all the previous commits, and is itself referred to by a hash. So if you change an old commit, all commits descending from that get a new hash, and so a new identity. If you publish the latest hash in the newspaper, you've locked down all the previous commits also.
  - xupybd 5y ago
    Sorry my mistake. I missed that. I was only thinking of the utility of publishing to an external source as a means of verifying history. You are correct.

phire 5y ago

Such usecases actually run into an economic problem. You can't just create a proof-of-work blockchain to hold your records. That blockchain also have to be a functioning economy with a large enough market cap to pay out mining rewards that are large enough to make a 51% attack economically nonviable. If you fail to do so, or the economy falls apart, all tamper-resistance just disappears. It actually ends up being cheaper just to trust a group of authorities, and pay auditors to make sure they are being trustworthy.