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> politics directly and noticeably impacts the QoL of far more people today > difference between life and death for many people who happily steered clear of "p

by FabHK 5y ago

> politics directly and noticeably impacts the QoL of far more people today > difference between life and death for many people who happily steered clear of "politics" 5 years ago > The world is going through shared turmoil right now You seem to be implying that the political situation has deteriorated and become more violent. Is that so? In 1968, several students were killed during protests against the Vietnam War. The Civil Rights movement sparked demonstrations and riots during which many people were killed (eg 34 at the Watts riots). The 1992 Los Angeles riots resulted in 63 deaths. And that's only in the US. In China, you had TianAnMen in 1989. In Germany, you had the Rote Armee Fraktion (Baader-Meinhoff) terror until 1998 with scores of deaths. The Irish Troubles also lasted until 1998 and killed over 3000 people. So, I'd say it is not worse now than, say, five decades ago. It could be that we have had one or two particularly peaceful decades, but I wonder how much bias there is in that assessment. How could one quantify it, or otherwise try to capture it objectively?

pjc50 5y ago
Good example of wilful misinterpretation: previous comment says "5 years", so you quote a bunch of examples from several decades ago.
- FabHK 5y ago
  Sorry, I should have been clearer. GP comment posits a deterioration over the last 5 to 10 years. 1. That deterioration might be imaginary, due to recency bias. One would need to examine it carefully. 2. That recent deterioration is most certainly embedded within a massive improvement over a longer horizon.
  - nend 5y ago
    >2. That recent deterioration is most certainly embedded within a massive improvement over a longer horizon. The point was that political discussion became more common on this board in the last five years due to this "deterioration." So whether things are better now than 60 years ago isn't relevant to that point.
    - FabHK 5y ago
      You're right.
- Diesel555 5y ago
  > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith Adding willful seems to violate these. The first, maybe a stretch, as willful applies to the author and not the argument. But more the second as it does not assume good faith. I think the comment holds the same value without adding willful.
throw0101a 5y ago
> You seem to be implying that the political situation has deteriorated and become more violent. Is that so? Perhaps not more violent, but there does seem to be more polarization, which is not a good path to be going down. Ezra Klein's 2020 book is an interesting look of the phenomenon in the US: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We%27re_Polarized https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We%27re_Polarized
keerthiko 5y ago
> You seem to be implying that the political situation has deteriorated and become more violent. Is that so? No, this was not my intended implication at all. The point was that when PoC raise their voices for BLM, refugee & immigrant rights, or when trans folk rally and protest for trans rights and against transphobic laws, or when anti-vaxxers/maskers force governments to impose mandates and reinstate lockdowns during COVID spikes, or when rural car owners demand lower gas prices forcing nations to conduct business with a war-perpetrator like Russia, it directly affects the quality of life of people who probably don't consider themselves part of these movements -- often mildly disruptive, sometimes largely disruptive, sometimes net positive. And the implication was that with the internet in general and social media in particular dictating the rhetoric and pace of these movements gaining traction, it happens at a scale and polarization in months that used to take generations. Regardless, state sanctioned violence is still rampant in many parts of the world, though not on the scale of Tiananmen or post-colonial freedom struggles unless you count the war in Ukraine. Often these are countries that western media pays less close attention to, and is a case in point of politics many in the west can still conveniently ignore -- the never-ending violence in the Gaza strip, Palestinians being de-homed in Israel, continued ISIS activity across the subcontinent, Venezuelan riots and suppression, Chinese suppression of Uyghurs and Tibetans, the Indian farmer protest response and anti-Muslim crackdowns, Malaysia, Philippines, the list goes on...

by FabHK 5y ago

pjc50 5y ago

Good example of wilful misinterpretation: previous comment says "5 years", so you quote a bunch of examples from several decades ago.

FabHK 5y ago
Sorry, I should have been clearer. GP comment posits a deterioration over the last 5 to 10 years. 1. That deterioration might be imaginary, due to recency bias. One would need to examine it carefully. 2. That recent deterioration is most certainly embedded within a massive improvement over a longer horizon.
- nend 5y ago
  >2. That recent deterioration is most certainly embedded within a massive improvement over a longer horizon. The point was that political discussion became more common on this board in the last five years due to this "deterioration." So whether things are better now than 60 years ago isn't relevant to that point.
  - FabHK 5y ago
    You're right.
Diesel555 5y ago
> When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith Adding willful seems to violate these. The first, maybe a stretch, as willful applies to the author and not the argument. But more the second as it does not assume good faith. I think the comment holds the same value without adding willful.

throw0101a 5y ago

> You seem to be implying that the political situation has deteriorated and become more violent. Is that so? Perhaps not more violent, but there does seem to be more polarization, which is not a good path to be going down. Ezra Klein's 2020 book is an interesting look of the phenomenon in the US: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We%27re_Polarized https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We%27re_Polarized

keerthiko 5y ago

> You seem to be implying that the political situation has deteriorated and become more violent. Is that so? No, this was not my intended implication at all. The point was that when PoC raise their voices for BLM, refugee & immigrant rights, or when trans folk rally and protest for trans rights and against transphobic laws, or when anti-vaxxers/maskers force governments to impose mandates and reinstate lockdowns during COVID spikes, or when rural car owners demand lower gas prices forcing nations to conduct business with a war-perpetrator like Russia, it directly affects the quality of life of people who probably don't consider themselves part of these movements -- often mildly disruptive, sometimes largely disruptive, sometimes net positive. And the implication was that with the internet in general and social media in particular dictating the rhetoric and pace of these movements gaining traction, it happens at a scale and polarization in months that used to take generations. Regardless, state sanctioned violence is still rampant in many parts of the world, though not on the scale of Tiananmen or post-colonial freedom struggles unless you count the war in Ukraine. Often these are countries that western media pays less close attention to, and is a case in point of politics many in the west can still conveniently ignore -- the never-ending violence in the Gaza strip, Palestinians being de-homed in Israel, continued ISIS activity across the subcontinent, Venezuelan riots and suppression, Chinese suppression of Uyghurs and Tibetans, the Indian farmer protest response and anti-Muslim crackdowns, Malaysia, Philippines, the list goes on...