5 ms·

Need data on myocarditis risk (minimally occurance, and ideally a sense of distribution relative severity) of COVID infection in same population. There's some

Need data on myocarditis risk (minimally occurance, and ideally a sense of distribution relative severity) of COVID infection in same population. There's some fuzzy outlines of that data here (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm).

maxerickson 5y ago
The better comparison is the total risk after vaccination vs the total risk from infection without vaccination. Given the infectiousness of the recent variants, it's reasonable to assume very high probability of eventual infection. (Myocarditis appears to be the more common severe side effect of vaccination, even though it is still quite rare. Hospitalization rates from infection (a reasonable proxy for a severe infection) in the similar age groups are probably higher.)
dham 5y ago
Yea I'd like to see that data too. I've seen that Myocarditis risk is higher with Covid than vaccine. The main downside I see is you're going to get Covid anyway so you're basically increasing your risk of Myocarditis once with vaccine and then again after catching it.
- renaudg 5y ago
  No, because the disease is much less likely to progress as severely once vaccinated, which lowers your risk of Covid-induced myocarditis. In any case : vaccine-induced myocarditis is almost always benign and resolves without treatment, and while there's been a lot of focus on it in the press and in antivaxxer circles, it's really a footnote in the list of Covid-related health issues. It's many orders of magnitude less frequent than Long Covid, for example.
  - IdEntities 5y ago
    > the disease is much less likely to progress as severely once vaccinated There's really no solid data to back this up. The only randomized controlled trials that were ever conducted ended when the EUAs were granted and the placebo groups were immediately vaccinated, long before the Delta variant even existed, let alone Omicron. Everything else is observational studies subject to selection bias and other confounding variables. And even there, the proportion of vaccinated vs unvaccinated deaths from Omicron (where good data is available) does not suggest high levels of protection from the vaccine.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      We already know that in a naive host the adaptive immune system takes days to fully engage during which covid can spread far better than in a vaccinated host. This explains why vaccinated hosts are far less likely to end up in the hospital or a morgue than people with identical demographics. It would be truly remarkable if vastly decreasing the prevalence of the pathogen early on somehow kept you from the hospital but led a far less extensive infection doing just as much damage. Posting solid data here when literally everyone on the forum has sought out such data at one time or another is a waste of everyone's time. If you have succeeded in ignoring it at this point no data is liable to change your mind.

maxerickson 5y ago

The better comparison is the total risk after vaccination vs the total risk from infection without vaccination. Given the infectiousness of the recent variants, it's reasonable to assume very high probability of eventual infection. (Myocarditis appears to be the more common severe side effect of vaccination, even though it is still quite rare. Hospitalization rates from infection (a reasonable proxy for a severe infection) in the similar age groups are probably higher.)

dham 5y ago

Yea I'd like to see that data too. I've seen that Myocarditis risk is higher with Covid than vaccine. The main downside I see is you're going to get Covid anyway so you're basically increasing your risk of Myocarditis once with vaccine and then again after catching it.

renaudg 5y ago
No, because the disease is much less likely to progress as severely once vaccinated, which lowers your risk of Covid-induced myocarditis. In any case : vaccine-induced myocarditis is almost always benign and resolves without treatment, and while there's been a lot of focus on it in the press and in antivaxxer circles, it's really a footnote in the list of Covid-related health issues. It's many orders of magnitude less frequent than Long Covid, for example.
- IdEntities 5y ago
  > the disease is much less likely to progress as severely once vaccinated There's really no solid data to back this up. The only randomized controlled trials that were ever conducted ended when the EUAs were granted and the placebo groups were immediately vaccinated, long before the Delta variant even existed, let alone Omicron. Everything else is observational studies subject to selection bias and other confounding variables. And even there, the proportion of vaccinated vs unvaccinated deaths from Omicron (where good data is available) does not suggest high levels of protection from the vaccine.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    We already know that in a naive host the adaptive immune system takes days to fully engage during which covid can spread far better than in a vaccinated host. This explains why vaccinated hosts are far less likely to end up in the hospital or a morgue than people with identical demographics. It would be truly remarkable if vastly decreasing the prevalence of the pathogen early on somehow kept you from the hospital but led a far less extensive infection doing just as much damage. Posting solid data here when literally everyone on the forum has sought out such data at one time or another is a waste of everyone's time. If you have succeeded in ignoring it at this point no data is liable to change your mind.