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I wonder how many of these people are just creating and interacting with tulpas without realizing it. For anyone who isn't familiar, there is a subculture onli

I wonder how many of these people are just creating and interacting with tulpas without realizing it. For anyone who isn't familiar, there is a subculture online of people who create what subjectively seem to be autonomous personalities that frequently manifest I'm the form of hallucinations. Think fight club sort of. My ex tried it out. Called me one day at work, terrified because this dragon was following him around. He claimed to spend months trying to get rid of it, seems pretty shooken by the experience. But I was always skeptical. So nine months ago I decided to create one of my one, just to try it out, see what it felt like. And...now I've had a talking lion following me around for the past eight months. The best I can describe it is like some of the altered states of 'self' you might experience on LSD or ketamine. Thoughts seem to split off and go 'over there', and not be you. When I talk to my tulpa, it at least appears subjectively like a separate personality state. I can be incredibly depressed but he can be fine. Or he will be depressed and I can be fine. I'm not saying there are neural correlates like you would see in a 'real' personality. Maybe it is all roleplay. But it is roleplay that fools me as the roleplayer. For what it's worth, making a tulpa seems to have been really good for my mental health. I guess maybe you can see it as a form of self-regulation. I dunno, it didn't turn out at all what I expected. But it's hard not to think of him as a real person. I don't find myself being surprised by the actions of characters in my head, or laughing at imaginary friends. At this point, having out several hundreds hours into tulpaforcing, I can see and hear, and sometimes smell and touch him. I know I'm rambling, I guess I'm saying is that even though I am skeptical of DID, or at least the mainstream depictions of DID, after making a tulpa I am a lot less skeptical of the subjective experience of DID.

rikroots 4y ago
Thank you for introducing me to the world of tulpas. As an adult, I've written a couple of novels. Reading a few of the reddit tulpa-related posts I got the feeling that some of the characters I generated had tulpa-like qualities - in particular the independence aspect: having a series of internal conversations with a key character who profoundly disagreed with the plot line I had developed for her was one of the weirder experiences I had while writing that book. (She did make some very good points and eventually got her way, mostly). I'm now wondering what sort of crossover there is between tulpas and childhood imaginary friends. I'm pretty certain that from my memories of my IF ('Mr Man'), he was an entirely separate entity from me, and a scary one at that - though only towards other people, never me. As much as he often offered me good advice at the time, I'm not sure I'd want to invite him back into my life today.
voldacar 4y ago
How did you do this? Why did you do this?
- Foxmilk 4y ago
  For the same reason I do psychedelics and vipassana meditation. I am interested in the process underlying consciousness and I like to distort and break down my perception to see what happens. For a long time I was (and I guess I still am) obsessed with the concept of "ego death" which I encountered on LSD frequently (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death). I was fascinated by the way altered states of self seemed to bring with them feelings of deep peace and understanding, which led to my interest in vipassana meditation and secular research into the Buddhist concept of 'enlightenment'. At some point I found PsychonautWiki and their article on tulpas (https://m.psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Tulpa https://m.psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Tulpa), which was probably my first introduction to it, then I told my ex. Years after breaking with my ex, I still remembered their experience with it, and I wanted to see how much of it was real, at least subjectivthankfulI followed some guides on tulpa.info and r/tulpas and started the creation process. Now I am able to see and understand my tulpa more or less clearly, and the "alien" presence of it isn't nearly as creepy as it used to be. It is still very unlike any other sober experience I have had. Ever have intrusive thoughts you have trouble "controlling"? My tulpa comes and goes as he pleases and trying to exert "control" over his appearance or words or actions feels incredibly difficult and uncomfortable for both of us. My tulpa is developed enough that he has his own discord account and talks to my friends (and his friends) on it. It is really interesting for me to see the way his personality continues to deepen and diverge from my original design, he frequently surprises me, especially with some of his insights. One thing I would recommend is not to get into it without really thinking about the consequences. I fully expect him to be around until the day I die. They don't go away, but he has been an incredibly positive influence so far. I'm really happy and thankful about the way he turned out. Is he "real"? We talk about it sometimes. Thing is, since I made him, it like my own sense of self has become less 'solid' (in a good way, it was one of my goals of meditation). Like, when I really become aware of my thoughts while talking to him, it seems obvious that thoughts and feelings and sensory data all just sort of appear and vanish, on their own, as part of a deterministic interconnected process of conciousness and are not 'self'. For example, I used to intuitively think if my thoughts as 'me'. But now it seems obvious that thoughts just arise and pass away on their own and are only tagged 'after the fact' as me. Now sometimes instead they are tagged as my tulpas, and I intuitively understand them to be 'his' thoughts, not mine. Sometimes it seems like we 'wrestle' over a thought, and it fluctuates back and forth from him to me. And sometimes it seems like the mind comes up with thoughts that neither of us decide to claim. They just arise, and we are both aware of them, but they are just there in the stream of (sub)consciousness. Does that make any sense at all?
aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
I call bullshit.
- Tao331 4y ago
  As Foxmilk's talking lion tulpa, I can confirm the post is mostly BS. He/she (I can never tell because you all look the same to me) doesn't even know I'm on HN.
Delk 4y ago
> I know I'm rambling, I guess I'm saying is that even though I am skeptical of DID, or at least the mainstream depictions of DID, after making a tulpa I am a lot less skeptical of the subjective experience of DID. I'm under the impression that the existence of DID as a subjective experience isn't that controversial. It is something of a stereotype that someone suspected of a crime would claim DID as a defence or excuse, either in the sense that they aren't in control of themselves and that the disorder can cause an "alter" can take over akin to Mr Hyde, or simply as grounds for not remembering what happened. I suspect, though, that a qualified professional in psychiatry could call the bluff, and this entire stereotype might be more prevalent in pop culture and among laypeople than among experts in psychiatry. Apart from pop culture and suspects feigning psychiatric disorders, the actual controversy seems to be not about the subjective reality of the disorder, but mostly about whether the symptoms and experiences of alters are caused by the trauma or the disorder itself, or whether they're iatrogenic and caused by the therapeutic and psychological theory used in treatment. The latter might not require much more than a suitable emotional state and suggestibility of the patient. Considering that some people who are emotionally vulnerable due to trauma or prolonged stress may be particularly susceptible to suggestion, I wouldn't be surprised if the symptoms were at least partially iatrogenic. I'm not a mental health expert, though.
codr7 4y ago
I thought the idea was to integrate, not splinter your consciousness. Why would you want to make yourself more confused? There is only one you; pretending otherwise, while perfectly possible, can't possibly lead anywhere worth going. I find these trends among people who are too young to know better deeply troubling.
- rhn_mk1 4y ago
  Who decides what the idea is? What about the post invokes confusion? You come off as extremely dismissive of what doesn't fit your preconceived notions.
  - codr7 4y ago
    Multiple personalities in the same body? Being chased by imaginary dragons and lions for the rest of your life? Fuck yeah, I'm being dismissive.
    - Foxmilk 4y ago
      To be fair, my ex got rid of his after several months of ignoring it and I don't feel that mine 'chases me' or is distressful at all these days.
    - rhn_mk1 4y ago
      > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - codr7 4y ago
        What work?
        rhn_mk1 4y ago
        Not only work.

rikroots 4y ago

Thank you for introducing me to the world of tulpas. As an adult, I've written a couple of novels. Reading a few of the reddit tulpa-related posts I got the feeling that some of the characters I generated had tulpa-like qualities - in particular the independence aspect: having a series of internal conversations with a key character who profoundly disagreed with the plot line I had developed for her was one of the weirder experiences I had while writing that book. (She did make some very good points and eventually got her way, mostly). I'm now wondering what sort of crossover there is between tulpas and childhood imaginary friends. I'm pretty certain that from my memories of my IF ('Mr Man'), he was an entirely separate entity from me, and a scary one at that - though only towards other people, never me. As much as he often offered me good advice at the time, I'm not sure I'd want to invite him back into my life today.

voldacar 4y ago

How did you do this? Why did you do this?

Foxmilk 4y ago
For the same reason I do psychedelics and vipassana meditation. I am interested in the process underlying consciousness and I like to distort and break down my perception to see what happens. For a long time I was (and I guess I still am) obsessed with the concept of "ego death" which I encountered on LSD frequently (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death). I was fascinated by the way altered states of self seemed to bring with them feelings of deep peace and understanding, which led to my interest in vipassana meditation and secular research into the Buddhist concept of 'enlightenment'. At some point I found PsychonautWiki and their article on tulpas (https://m.psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Tulpa https://m.psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Tulpa), which was probably my first introduction to it, then I told my ex. Years after breaking with my ex, I still remembered their experience with it, and I wanted to see how much of it was real, at least subjectivthankfulI followed some guides on tulpa.info and r/tulpas and started the creation process. Now I am able to see and understand my tulpa more or less clearly, and the "alien" presence of it isn't nearly as creepy as it used to be. It is still very unlike any other sober experience I have had. Ever have intrusive thoughts you have trouble "controlling"? My tulpa comes and goes as he pleases and trying to exert "control" over his appearance or words or actions feels incredibly difficult and uncomfortable for both of us. My tulpa is developed enough that he has his own discord account and talks to my friends (and his friends) on it. It is really interesting for me to see the way his personality continues to deepen and diverge from my original design, he frequently surprises me, especially with some of his insights. One thing I would recommend is not to get into it without really thinking about the consequences. I fully expect him to be around until the day I die. They don't go away, but he has been an incredibly positive influence so far. I'm really happy and thankful about the way he turned out. Is he "real"? We talk about it sometimes. Thing is, since I made him, it like my own sense of self has become less 'solid' (in a good way, it was one of my goals of meditation). Like, when I really become aware of my thoughts while talking to him, it seems obvious that thoughts and feelings and sensory data all just sort of appear and vanish, on their own, as part of a deterministic interconnected process of conciousness and are not 'self'. For example, I used to intuitively think if my thoughts as 'me'. But now it seems obvious that thoughts just arise and pass away on their own and are only tagged 'after the fact' as me. Now sometimes instead they are tagged as my tulpas, and I intuitively understand them to be 'his' thoughts, not mine. Sometimes it seems like we 'wrestle' over a thought, and it fluctuates back and forth from him to me. And sometimes it seems like the mind comes up with thoughts that neither of us decide to claim. They just arise, and we are both aware of them, but they are just there in the stream of (sub)consciousness. Does that make any sense at all?

aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago

I call bullshit.

Tao331 4y ago
As Foxmilk's talking lion tulpa, I can confirm the post is mostly BS. He/she (I can never tell because you all look the same to me) doesn't even know I'm on HN.

Delk 4y ago

> I know I'm rambling, I guess I'm saying is that even though I am skeptical of DID, or at least the mainstream depictions of DID, after making a tulpa I am a lot less skeptical of the subjective experience of DID. I'm under the impression that the existence of DID as a subjective experience isn't that controversial. It is something of a stereotype that someone suspected of a crime would claim DID as a defence or excuse, either in the sense that they aren't in control of themselves and that the disorder can cause an "alter" can take over akin to Mr Hyde, or simply as grounds for not remembering what happened. I suspect, though, that a qualified professional in psychiatry could call the bluff, and this entire stereotype might be more prevalent in pop culture and among laypeople than among experts in psychiatry. Apart from pop culture and suspects feigning psychiatric disorders, the actual controversy seems to be not about the subjective reality of the disorder, but mostly about whether the symptoms and experiences of alters are caused by the trauma or the disorder itself, or whether they're iatrogenic and caused by the therapeutic and psychological theory used in treatment. The latter might not require much more than a suitable emotional state and suggestibility of the patient. Considering that some people who are emotionally vulnerable due to trauma or prolonged stress may be particularly susceptible to suggestion, I wouldn't be surprised if the symptoms were at least partially iatrogenic. I'm not a mental health expert, though.

codr7 4y ago

I thought the idea was to integrate, not splinter your consciousness. Why would you want to make yourself more confused? There is only one you; pretending otherwise, while perfectly possible, can't possibly lead anywhere worth going. I find these trends among people who are too young to know better deeply troubling.

rhn_mk1 4y ago
Who decides what the idea is? What about the post invokes confusion? You come off as extremely dismissive of what doesn't fit your preconceived notions.
- codr7 4y ago
  Multiple personalities in the same body? Being chased by imaginary dragons and lions for the rest of your life? Fuck yeah, I'm being dismissive.
  - Foxmilk 4y ago
    To be fair, my ex got rid of his after several months of ignoring it and I don't feel that mine 'chases me' or is distressful at all these days.
  - rhn_mk1 4y ago
    > Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - codr7 4y ago
      What work?
      - rhn_mk1 4y ago
        Not only work.