3 ms·

What separates The Iliad from superhero movies cannot be reduced to a difference of format.

halostatue 4y ago
No, it’s only the fragmentary preservation over thousands of years. The fundamental story structures are quite similar. The scope of the tales told is quite similar. The behaviour of the protagonists and antagonists is quite similar. We know about the Iliad and the Odyssey because they were relatively well preserved. We don’t know about Homer’s less popular poems, or of any particularly trashy verse that he wrote…because it didn’t survive. The Iliad survived not because it is transcendent, but because it was popular (which meant that there were more copies made to survive over time). The "transcendence" was added later as a (probably wrong) reason for its popularity. Some 3,000 years from now there will probably be someone calling the Saga of the Boy Wizard transcendent just the way that people call the Iliad transcendent. They, like many others, will confuse its widespread popularity and many copies with a judgement on quality. There are other similar stories better written that don’t have the popularity of HP. But they won’t survive over time because there weren’t as many copies.
- blockwriter 4y ago
  The reason the stories are similar is attributable to Homer. You might assert that there is a pre-existing human need for gestalt, but I come from Harold Bloom's school of thinking on the subject, thinking myself that it is literature that articulates, in its most salient respects, the nature of this need. Our understanding of it is based on literature, and the Marvel movies are based on that cultural heritage, however the results may vary. I actually have no information as to the popularity of Homer's work relative to other works at that time. I suppose I have fairly strong intuitions as to its popularity after antiquity, but its popularity at that point seems to cut against your argument somewhat. There were certainly stories that dominated Homer's societal saturation after the fall of the Greek empire, and some of those survived, some not.

No, it’s only the fragmentary preservation over thousands of years. The fundamental story structures are quite similar. The scope of the tales told is quite similar. The behaviour of the protagonists and antagonists is quite similar. We know about the Iliad and the Odyssey because they were relatively well preserved. We don’t know about Homer’s less popular poems, or of any particularly trashy verse that he wrote…because it didn’t survive. The Iliad survived not because it is transcendent, but because it was popular (which meant that there were more copies made to survive over time). The "transcendence" was added later as a (probably wrong) reason for its popularity. Some 3,000 years from now there will probably be someone calling the Saga of the Boy Wizard transcendent just the way that people call the Iliad transcendent. They, like many others, will confuse its widespread popularity and many copies with a judgement on quality. There are other similar stories better written that don’t have the popularity of HP. But they won’t survive over time because there weren’t as many copies.

blockwriter 4y ago
The reason the stories are similar is attributable to Homer. You might assert that there is a pre-existing human need for gestalt, but I come from Harold Bloom's school of thinking on the subject, thinking myself that it is literature that articulates, in its most salient respects, the nature of this need. Our understanding of it is based on literature, and the Marvel movies are based on that cultural heritage, however the results may vary. I actually have no information as to the popularity of Homer's work relative to other works at that time. I suppose I have fairly strong intuitions as to its popularity after antiquity, but its popularity at that point seems to cut against your argument somewhat. There were certainly stories that dominated Homer's societal saturation after the fall of the Greek empire, and some of those survived, some not.