6 ms·

Indeed. All this talk about a proper diet without ever mentioning anything but animal flesh and fat. Can't be the excess food intake. Like too much sweets and

by oblak 4y ago

Indeed. All this talk about a proper diet without ever mentioning anything but animal flesh and fat. Can't be the excess food intake. Like too much sweets and meat. No. Fat people are not eating enough fat. It's so simple.

wincy 4y ago
I mean I lost 80 pounds literally eating cheap hot dogs and kimchi for 6 months. It might be that simple.
- concomitant 4y ago
  that's a recipe for gastric cancer
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  That's almost zero carbs (if we're talking about "sausage" hodogs, and not "sausage-in-bread-bun" hotdogs)... fat makes you feel full faster and longer, and kimchi add vitamins and almost zero calories, so no wonder you're losing weight :) Replace those with potato chips and chocolate, and you'll be fat very soon :)
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    I think the upshot of much of this research is that sugar and fat aren’t directly the issue. That gut bacteria actually have a much bigger impact on both energy expenditure and appetite than we thought. Insofar as diet has a major effect on obesity (in the epidemic sense we’re seeing in the US) it might be due to diet having a harmful effect on gut bacteria. Or it might not. It’s an intriguing hypothesis, and it’s disappointing to see it devolving into an argument about “not eating too many sweets.”
  - User23 4y ago
    Then there’s the classic lean chicken and tequila diet[1] (plus green vegetables). It’s physically impossible to gain bodyfat on that diet because the storage form of protein is muscle and other lean tissue and the storage form of alcohol is there isn’t one. The body preferentially metabolizes ethanol for immediate energy needs over all other macronutrients. So if you have fat or carbohydrates in your diet they will get stored as adipose tissue, but if you stick to protein and ethanol you’re good. The above is a joke. However it’s useful to know if you’re cutting and planning to attend an event where you’ll be consuming alcohol. Just skip all carbs and fat that day and eat protein and dietary fiber and you won’t set yourself back at all. [1] Any lean protein source will do, including bison, grass fed beef, some fish, some pork cuts, and so on. Same for the ethanol, has to be pure spirits, no sugar mixers.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      "and the storage form of alcohol is there isn’t one." Do you have a source for this? I would think at least secondarily it could cause fatty liver or beer belly, even if it's technically using the calories from other sources.
      - User23 4y ago
        It’s been a while since I Google scholared this and I’m not interested in being an unpaid research assistant. I have no reason to lie, but if you want to check my claims you’ve got the tools at your fingertips. The essence is that there is no metabolic pathway to convert dietary ethanol into lipids or glycogen. Any unused ethanol is excreted through the lungs or kidneys. Granted ingesting enough ethanol such that it’s too much for your immediate energy needs is a life limiting decision.
        chasebank 4y ago
        I'm 99% sure you're correct on the alcohol reference. From what I've read, alcohol cannot be stored but gets prioritized as caloric fuel for the body. Regarding lean protein, I'm also sure that protein gets broken down into glucose for fuel, and can be stored as such in fat. It's why the keto community is really big on such a relatively low percent of protein and high percent fat in their diet. That diet probably works wonders because if you have ever tried to eat a bunch of lean meat, it's difficult to get through an entire chicken breast, let alone excess calories it would require you to put on weight.
        User23 4y ago
        > Regarding lean protein, I'm also sure that protein gets broken down into glucose for fuel, and can be stored as such in fat. Glycogenesis is certainly a thing. However every metabolic ward study I read found that there was never a glycogenesis -> lipogenesis pathway observed. Instead excess protein was discarded renaly.
        sdze 4y ago
lupire 4y ago
"sweets" are the alternative to fat. That's the point.
philwelch 4y ago
There was a concerted effort to reduce fat intake in the United States throughout the latter half of the 20th century, and the timing of this effort lines up pretty well with the beginning of the obesity epidemic.
- Buttons840 4y ago
  I enjoyed the documentary Fed Up which claimed that when the low fat craze was beginning, the industry had a lot of excess fat, so you also see a rise in cheese advertising around the same time.
- kuhewa 4y ago
  Yeah but it replaced fat with refined sugar. That doesn't mean adding animal fat back is an unconditional improvement
  - philwelch 4y ago
    Sure but, to my understanding, the human perception of satiety (“being full”) is far more sensitive to animal fats than refined sugar.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
> Can't be the excess food intake. Like too much sweets and meat. No. Fat people are not eating enough fat. It's so simple. There can be second order effects. For example, it's not that eating a bunch of animal fat will magically get or keep you thin. Instead, it's likely that eating fat you'll not eat as much of it, and even better: eat little to no sweets or other "junk". I'm not convinced that eating too much meat gets people fat. By that, I mean the meat itself. What I've noticed when eating out, is that meat is often drenched in some kind of syrupy sauce. And I notice that whenever I eat such a meal, I'm left hungrier, or get hungry quicker afterwards, compared to if I eat the same quantity of meat but with just a few spices. Most of the times, I'll find there's too much meat, and not even finish it. But with the sauce? I'll only stop when I'm physically bursting. Another poster touches on this, talking about satiety. It's very clear to me that some foods just give me the impression of being hungry and wanting to keep on eating them. And it requires a great deal of will power to not indulge. Bonus points for these foods being "bite-sized", when you figure "just one won't make a difference". Only issue is, "you can't eat only one", as the ad says.

by oblak 4y ago

wincy 4y ago

I mean I lost 80 pounds literally eating cheap hot dogs and kimchi for 6 months. It might be that simple.

concomitant 4y ago
that's a recipe for gastric cancer
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
That's almost zero carbs (if we're talking about "sausage" hodogs, and not "sausage-in-bread-bun" hotdogs)... fat makes you feel full faster and longer, and kimchi add vitamins and almost zero calories, so no wonder you're losing weight :) Replace those with potato chips and chocolate, and you'll be fat very soon :)
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  I think the upshot of much of this research is that sugar and fat aren’t directly the issue. That gut bacteria actually have a much bigger impact on both energy expenditure and appetite than we thought. Insofar as diet has a major effect on obesity (in the epidemic sense we’re seeing in the US) it might be due to diet having a harmful effect on gut bacteria. Or it might not. It’s an intriguing hypothesis, and it’s disappointing to see it devolving into an argument about “not eating too many sweets.”
- User23 4y ago
  Then there’s the classic lean chicken and tequila diet[1] (plus green vegetables). It’s physically impossible to gain bodyfat on that diet because the storage form of protein is muscle and other lean tissue and the storage form of alcohol is there isn’t one. The body preferentially metabolizes ethanol for immediate energy needs over all other macronutrients. So if you have fat or carbohydrates in your diet they will get stored as adipose tissue, but if you stick to protein and ethanol you’re good. The above is a joke. However it’s useful to know if you’re cutting and planning to attend an event where you’ll be consuming alcohol. Just skip all carbs and fat that day and eat protein and dietary fiber and you won’t set yourself back at all. [1] Any lean protein source will do, including bison, grass fed beef, some fish, some pork cuts, and so on. Same for the ethanol, has to be pure spirits, no sugar mixers.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    "and the storage form of alcohol is there isn’t one." Do you have a source for this? I would think at least secondarily it could cause fatty liver or beer belly, even if it's technically using the calories from other sources.
    - User23 4y ago
      It’s been a while since I Google scholared this and I’m not interested in being an unpaid research assistant. I have no reason to lie, but if you want to check my claims you’ve got the tools at your fingertips. The essence is that there is no metabolic pathway to convert dietary ethanol into lipids or glycogen. Any unused ethanol is excreted through the lungs or kidneys. Granted ingesting enough ethanol such that it’s too much for your immediate energy needs is a life limiting decision.
      - chasebank 4y ago
        I'm 99% sure you're correct on the alcohol reference. From what I've read, alcohol cannot be stored but gets prioritized as caloric fuel for the body. Regarding lean protein, I'm also sure that protein gets broken down into glucose for fuel, and can be stored as such in fat. It's why the keto community is really big on such a relatively low percent of protein and high percent fat in their diet. That diet probably works wonders because if you have ever tried to eat a bunch of lean meat, it's difficult to get through an entire chicken breast, let alone excess calories it would require you to put on weight.
        User23 4y ago
        > Regarding lean protein, I'm also sure that protein gets broken down into glucose for fuel, and can be stored as such in fat. Glycogenesis is certainly a thing. However every metabolic ward study I read found that there was never a glycogenesis -> lipogenesis pathway observed. Instead excess protein was discarded renaly.
        sdze 4y ago

lupire 4y ago

"sweets" are the alternative to fat. That's the point.

philwelch 4y ago

There was a concerted effort to reduce fat intake in the United States throughout the latter half of the 20th century, and the timing of this effort lines up pretty well with the beginning of the obesity epidemic.

Buttons840 4y ago
I enjoyed the documentary Fed Up which claimed that when the low fat craze was beginning, the industry had a lot of excess fat, so you also see a rise in cheese advertising around the same time.
kuhewa 4y ago
Yeah but it replaced fat with refined sugar. That doesn't mean adding animal fat back is an unconditional improvement
- philwelch 4y ago
  Sure but, to my understanding, the human perception of satiety (“being full”) is far more sensitive to animal fats than refined sugar.

vladvasiliu 4y ago

> Can't be the excess food intake. Like too much sweets and meat. No. Fat people are not eating enough fat. It's so simple. There can be second order effects. For example, it's not that eating a bunch of animal fat will magically get or keep you thin. Instead, it's likely that eating fat you'll not eat as much of it, and even better: eat little to no sweets or other "junk". I'm not convinced that eating too much meat gets people fat. By that, I mean the meat itself. What I've noticed when eating out, is that meat is often drenched in some kind of syrupy sauce. And I notice that whenever I eat such a meal, I'm left hungrier, or get hungry quicker afterwards, compared to if I eat the same quantity of meat but with just a few spices. Most of the times, I'll find there's too much meat, and not even finish it. But with the sauce? I'll only stop when I'm physically bursting. Another poster touches on this, talking about satiety. It's very clear to me that some foods just give me the impression of being hungry and wanting to keep on eating them. And it requires a great deal of will power to not indulge. Bonus points for these foods being "bite-sized", when you figure "just one won't make a difference". Only issue is, "you can't eat only one", as the ad says.