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This might be incoherent It's hard to talk about this for myself as a trans woman, and especially for cis gays, as liberal queer ideology has taken over the di

This might be incoherent It's hard to talk about this for myself as a trans woman, and especially for cis gays, as liberal queer ideology has taken over the discourse, but it's worth having more queer people speak up about it so we can develop a language for it that leaves things open to good-faith debate. I'm not against blockers to delay puberty until someone is old enough to develop an informed understanding of themselves, but it's definitely the case that kids are overexposed to a monolithic queer culture that puts frivolous acts of expression on the same level as life-altering changes to your social and physical self. A decade ago things were pretty different—you'd seek out an online community and read a lot of Q&A, stories, and _advice on psychoanalyzing yourself responsibly_, which I don't see much of anymore in trans spaces. It's not just cis gays, but many trans folks as well, who are seen as regressive for having opinions divergent from what you see on progressive new media, Twitter, etc. Talking about something like this, or defending pronouns as something defined by others that can't be "wrong", or even something as milquetoast as signaling my disinterest in being invited to orgies, will get me at least a confused look from your typical urbanite queer, and possibly get me called a transmisogynist. For a gay man's perspective, Tim Dillon has spoken about this a lot, and folks like him are much more common than you might think. One thing I definitely disagree with the author on is the idea that the current wave is about abolishing gender, in contrast to previous waves focused on sexual liberation—for one I don't get a "sexual liberation" vibe from the era of gay marriage legalization, and for another I see the present movements more as sexual-accelerationist, i.e. exploring sex and gender with such fervor that they're eroding its social utility and finding new ways to preclude healthy development of relationships and communities. Younger trans folks I've been with are so sexually liberated that it turns into narcissistic hedonism and you can't even be sure they're in the room with you when you're having sex.

smeej 5y ago
That last line is the key, isn't it? Sex used to(?) mean something. People were exposed to each other, vulnerable, sharing themselves. It was even intensely powerful, in the sense that new life might actually spring out of it. But this is basically treating another unique, unrepeatable human person as a toy, and not even an exceptional one. I can't help but think we've lost something important and are that much the poorer for it. Is the liberation to live one's life in pursuit of the next orgasm really worth it if we have to lose what sex was to get there?
- replygirl 5y ago
  You can expand this to pleasure-seeking in general. Narcissism is central not just in the proliferation of identity markers but of micro-celebrities, micro-genres, fandom communities, DTC + targeted advertising, a whole bunch of things that make it hard to thrive unless you treat yourself as the main character. There's that self-care meme with the text that goes something like "Sorry but I don't have the capacity to help you with your breakdown, can you reach out to someone who's emotionally available?". Advertising, the revolt against organized labor, and the financialization of the economy have all come together, knocked down a ton of load-bearing dominoes in our society, and interacted with the media landscape in a way that's eroded any tangible sense of community and made people incredibly self-interested, fearful, reactive, and unable to form an inner life that gives one the strength to give and accept real love and criticism
  - ghostbrainalpha 4y ago
    What is DTC ?
- Jcowell 5y ago
  Did it? Some cultures surely put meaning into it but did all of them?
  - replygirl 5y ago
    i think we're just talking about western culture, more specifically american culture, which was founded on and has spent most of its history confronting anglican and protestant values
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    It's not just "some" cultures, either. Long-term affectionate bonds, along the lines of marriage for people of different genders, or other forms of quasi-affinal kinship (e.g. sworn brotherhood, compadrazgo etc.) for same-gender pairings are effectively a human universal. Sexual orientation doesn't even enter into this all that much, the ubiquity goes beyond that.

smeej 5y ago

That last line is the key, isn't it? Sex used to(?) mean something. People were exposed to each other, vulnerable, sharing themselves. It was even intensely powerful, in the sense that new life might actually spring out of it. But this is basically treating another unique, unrepeatable human person as a toy, and not even an exceptional one. I can't help but think we've lost something important and are that much the poorer for it. Is the liberation to live one's life in pursuit of the next orgasm really worth it if we have to lose what sex was to get there?

replygirl 5y ago
You can expand this to pleasure-seeking in general. Narcissism is central not just in the proliferation of identity markers but of micro-celebrities, micro-genres, fandom communities, DTC + targeted advertising, a whole bunch of things that make it hard to thrive unless you treat yourself as the main character. There's that self-care meme with the text that goes something like "Sorry but I don't have the capacity to help you with your breakdown, can you reach out to someone who's emotionally available?". Advertising, the revolt against organized labor, and the financialization of the economy have all come together, knocked down a ton of load-bearing dominoes in our society, and interacted with the media landscape in a way that's eroded any tangible sense of community and made people incredibly self-interested, fearful, reactive, and unable to form an inner life that gives one the strength to give and accept real love and criticism
- ghostbrainalpha 4y ago
  What is DTC ?
Jcowell 5y ago
Did it? Some cultures surely put meaning into it but did all of them?
- replygirl 5y ago
  i think we're just talking about western culture, more specifically american culture, which was founded on and has spent most of its history confronting anglican and protestant values
- zozbot234 5y ago
  It's not just "some" cultures, either. Long-term affectionate bonds, along the lines of marriage for people of different genders, or other forms of quasi-affinal kinship (e.g. sworn brotherhood, compadrazgo etc.) for same-gender pairings are effectively a human universal. Sexual orientation doesn't even enter into this all that much, the ubiquity goes beyond that.