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Human history has existed for much longer with same-sex marriages than without it. It was mostly outlawed with the rise of Christianity. The impact of same-sex

by Kranar 5y ago

Human history has existed for much longer with same-sex marriages than without it. It was mostly outlawed with the rise of Christianity. The impact of same-sex marriage on child rearing is well understood as same-sex couples raising children predates same-sex marriage by decades and studies can be found going back to the 1960s on the subject.

ipaddr 5y ago
What societies had same sex marriages?
- Kranar 5y ago
  I mean almost every single one of them prior to the rise of Christianity and the influence of modern western culture. The Chinese had no qualms with gay marriage or homosexuality in general, there are records of famous Japanese Samurais who married one another, Native Americans have the concept of two-spirit marriages, numerous Roman Emperors married male husbands, and neither the Greeks or Egyptians differentiated much between homosexual or heterosexual relationships. The decline in same-sex marriage, and same-sex relationships in general can be predominantly attributed to the changing attitudes about sex that came about with the rising influence of Christianity. Christianity did not just ban same-sex relationships, it advocated for sexual abstinence in general, forbidding any form of sex outside of marriage and even within marriage promoting sex as strictly for the purpose procreation going so far as to forbid the use of contraceptives, oral/anal sex and even masturbation. There are numerous reasons for why this change in attitude gained popularity from economic reasons to major shifts in demographics due to the outbreak of numerous wars in the 3rd century resulting in, among other things, growing discrepancies between the number of men and women. It would take on the order of a thousand years before attitudes on sex became more liberal, with the Anglican church among the first to formally permit the use of contraceptives, and Protestant movements recognizing sexual acts between husband and wife as serving a "unitive" purpose rather than strictly procreation. The point is to say that homosexuality was a casualty of very strict views on sexual relationships in general that came about with the rise of Christianity, but prior to that most societies didn't care to think much of it one way or another. Some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate; why would the people who like vanilla care too much about the people who enjoy chocolate?
  - chernevik 5y ago
    > numerous Roman Emperors married male husbands Ok, name two. > The decline in same-sex marriage, and same-sex relationships in general can be predominantly attributed to the changing attitudes about sex that came about with the rising influence of Christianity Name a same-sex marriage in pre-Christian Greece or Rome. The Greeks had no problem with homosexuality, Plato is full of jokes about it. And it wasn't that big a deal among the Romans, Julius Caesar's own legions would sign songs about his escapades. But I don't know of any evidence that it was ever the basis of a household. None of the great Greek dramaturges bothered to write a play noticing it. > There are numerous reasons for why this change in attitude gained popularity from economic reasons to major shifts in demographics due to the outbreak of numerous wars in the 3rd century resulting in, among other things, growing discrepancies between the number of men and women. I don't know where you're getting this stuff, I know a fair amount of history and I'm aware of nothing so remarkable as a shift in gender balance in the 3rd century. > homosexuality was a casualty of very strict views on sexual relationships in general that came about with the rise of Christianity I don't think Christianity/Christians have ever cared that much about it, really. They/it think it wrong and immoral, sure, but it isn't something that has ever attracted an enormous amount of attention or effort. It wasn't important enough to get much attention from Chaucer, Dante, Bocaccio, Shakespeare -- none of whom were shy about the range of human experience. I know there are historians of gay sexuality, of which I am ignorant, but as a layman familiar with some of the core texts, my impression is that the overall view was "eh, whatever".
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - 0des 5y ago
      Canaanites are the earliest written group I know of, mentioned in the bible, to include same sex marriages.

by Kranar 5y ago

ipaddr 5y ago

What societies had same sex marriages?

Kranar 5y ago
I mean almost every single one of them prior to the rise of Christianity and the influence of modern western culture. The Chinese had no qualms with gay marriage or homosexuality in general, there are records of famous Japanese Samurais who married one another, Native Americans have the concept of two-spirit marriages, numerous Roman Emperors married male husbands, and neither the Greeks or Egyptians differentiated much between homosexual or heterosexual relationships. The decline in same-sex marriage, and same-sex relationships in general can be predominantly attributed to the changing attitudes about sex that came about with the rising influence of Christianity. Christianity did not just ban same-sex relationships, it advocated for sexual abstinence in general, forbidding any form of sex outside of marriage and even within marriage promoting sex as strictly for the purpose procreation going so far as to forbid the use of contraceptives, oral/anal sex and even masturbation. There are numerous reasons for why this change in attitude gained popularity from economic reasons to major shifts in demographics due to the outbreak of numerous wars in the 3rd century resulting in, among other things, growing discrepancies between the number of men and women. It would take on the order of a thousand years before attitudes on sex became more liberal, with the Anglican church among the first to formally permit the use of contraceptives, and Protestant movements recognizing sexual acts between husband and wife as serving a "unitive" purpose rather than strictly procreation. The point is to say that homosexuality was a casualty of very strict views on sexual relationships in general that came about with the rise of Christianity, but prior to that most societies didn't care to think much of it one way or another. Some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate; why would the people who like vanilla care too much about the people who enjoy chocolate?
- chernevik 5y ago
  > numerous Roman Emperors married male husbands Ok, name two. > The decline in same-sex marriage, and same-sex relationships in general can be predominantly attributed to the changing attitudes about sex that came about with the rising influence of Christianity Name a same-sex marriage in pre-Christian Greece or Rome. The Greeks had no problem with homosexuality, Plato is full of jokes about it. And it wasn't that big a deal among the Romans, Julius Caesar's own legions would sign songs about his escapades. But I don't know of any evidence that it was ever the basis of a household. None of the great Greek dramaturges bothered to write a play noticing it. > There are numerous reasons for why this change in attitude gained popularity from economic reasons to major shifts in demographics due to the outbreak of numerous wars in the 3rd century resulting in, among other things, growing discrepancies between the number of men and women. I don't know where you're getting this stuff, I know a fair amount of history and I'm aware of nothing so remarkable as a shift in gender balance in the 3rd century. > homosexuality was a casualty of very strict views on sexual relationships in general that came about with the rise of Christianity I don't think Christianity/Christians have ever cared that much about it, really. They/it think it wrong and immoral, sure, but it isn't something that has ever attracted an enormous amount of attention or effort. It wasn't important enough to get much attention from Chaucer, Dante, Bocaccio, Shakespeare -- none of whom were shy about the range of human experience. I know there are historians of gay sexuality, of which I am ignorant, but as a layman familiar with some of the core texts, my impression is that the overall view was "eh, whatever".
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 0des 5y ago
    Canaanites are the earliest written group I know of, mentioned in the bible, to include same sex marriages.