6 ms·

There's a ton of very new research on this. The big exciting candidate right now is Akkermansia muciniphila, which seems to emit a glucagon-like peptide that mo

There's a ton of very new research on this. The big exciting candidate right now is Akkermansia muciniphila, which seems to emit a glucagon-like peptide that moderates appetite [1] (similar to drugs like Wegovy, only maybe without the side effects.) The western high-fat/carb diet also seems to cause Akkermansia populations to drop precipitously, which may be either cause or a separate side-effect of the obesity epidemic. Apparently supplementing Akkermansia in obese mice has extremely beneficial effects on weight and all sorts of health measures. I tried some from the only supplier in the US and (unfortunately) noticed absolutely no difference, N=1. Still, I am eagerly awaiting the day when someone conclusively nails the obesity epidemic down to something as simple as gut dysbiosis. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-00880-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-00880-5

echelon 5y ago
While I'm fairly convinced that a lot of dysfunction gets a helping hand from microbiota imbalance, including such faraway targets as pulmonary, cardiac, and even neurodegenerative disorders [1], I think there's a simpler culprit: sugar. Metabolism of simple sugars changes biochemical gears, and we as a culture and society are heavy on its use. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882347
- matthewdgreen 5y ago
  Sugar definitely seems bad, but doesn't explain why simple fecal transplants are able to replicate many of the health effects of a low-carb diet without the actual diet, at least in some obese mice [1]. (PS I am definitely not an expert in this area, just someone who is tired of eating low-carb to maintain weight, and wondering why other people can just eat normal food.) [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6199268/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6199268/
  - nebulous_two 5y ago
    The whole thing about fecal transplants is that the resulting changes in your microbiome make it so your pull to sugar is weakened. Your diet changes because your cravings change. Imagine how easy it would be if you craved food that was "good for you", or that your cravings for bad food were severely weakened. That's kinda what having a healthy microbiome is like
alimov 5y ago
Grain Brain is an interesting read that covers in a pop-sci way some of the various research being done.
b112 5y ago
The western high-fat/carb diet also seems to cause Akkermansia populations to drop The West, typically, eats a tiny, tiny fraction of the fat it used to. And also far less animal fat. Do you know what went in soups, stews? Bones, with fat, for flavour, and energy, and nutrition. What were pies made of? Pies, made to allow older apples and such, to be used past their best date? Loads of animal fat in the crust. And, especially in Canada, our pork is now leaner than beef was 50 years ago! And our beef is silly lean. We eat far, far less fat than our ancestors, who would never throw away such valuable, nutritious calories. If the simple metric is, why were we thin before, and overweight now? And if the answer is "our diet changed", then this logic means we should all be eating about 10x the calories we currently do, in animal fat, and tapering off the rest. What if all those craving are just simply "the body needs more nutritious fat". Just like our ancestors ate. What if we crave salty snacks, coated in vegetable oil (potato chips), because our body desperately wants salty fat? Being overweight is far, far more unhealthy than eating more animal fat daily. What if the cost of low fat diets, is an irresistable urge which causes weight gain? If so, low fat diets are, therefore, very unhealthy... because being overweight is far worse.
- hombre_fatal 5y ago
  I’d focus on getting fruit, vegetables, legumes, fiber, and everything that comes with it back into the western diet before I’d look at animal fat as the silver bullet we’re missing. Too few animal products doesn’t seem like the thing the SAD is missing, either.
  - oblak 5y ago
    Indeed. All this talk about a proper diet without ever mentioning anything but animal flesh and fat. Can't be the excess food intake. Like too much sweets and meat. No. Fat people are not eating enough fat. It's so simple.
    - wincy 5y ago
      I mean I lost 80 pounds literally eating cheap hot dogs and kimchi for 6 months. It might be that simple.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
Still, I am eagerly awaiting the day when someone conclusively nails the obesity epidemic down to something as simple as gut dysbiosis. That's unlikely to happen. Nutritional content of produce has gone down, people eat fewer home-cooked meals and we drive more and walk less, among other things. So it's not likely to boil down to "This one simple trick!" that can be solved with a simple product one can buy for cheap.
- matthewdgreen 5y ago
  If you look at the timing of the obesity epidemic you notice that it has a very sharp “knee” in the US around the 1970s. It does not coincide with the introduction of fast food or the automobile or sedentary living, and contemporary people exercise more in many cases than they did in the 60s and 70s, with vastly higher BMI as a result. The same pattern occurs in other countries just at later times. And the effect size is huge. Much larger than anything we can achieve with diet and exercise (durably) or even the best weight loss drugs. I don’t know what’s causing it, but “gosh people eat poorly” doesn’t seem like a good explanation. I thought this was a good (amateur, but accessible) summary of some of the stats: https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/amp/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...
  - lenocinor 5y ago
    This is a startling and very interesting article. Thank you!
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    I don’t know what’s causing it, but “gosh people eat poorly” doesn’t seem like a good explanation. I'm not sure what your point is because what I said boils down to "There seem to be multiple factors, not any one thing." I've lost multiple dress sizes by improving my health when losing weight wasn't a goal at all. Among other things, that experience informs my views and I don't really know how to engage whatever point you are trying to make that seems to not really engage with anything I actually said. But thank you for the link. It's got a take I hadn't previously seen.
tayo42 5y ago
what does a non western diet include that is so much more healthy? In my limited experience it doesn't seem that way or atleast you can pick and choose what you want. Rice is a big thing and white rice has a high glycemic index. or cooking with ghee, or coconut milk or fatty cuts of meat
sangnoir 5y ago
> Still, I am eagerly awaiting the day when someone conclusively nails the obesity epidemic down to something as simple as gut dysbiosis. On average, what is the daily caloric surplus (calories in - calories out) for Americans vs. the rest of the world? I suspect going for exotic/complex explanations for obesity may not be necessary, therefore think change is gut bacteria is an effect, not a cause of obesity. Lot's of other places have a high-carb diet (staples are rice- or corn-based), and yet do not have obesity crises because those areas also have low mechanization, high levels of menial labor and walking

echelon 5y ago

While I'm fairly convinced that a lot of dysfunction gets a helping hand from microbiota imbalance, including such faraway targets as pulmonary, cardiac, and even neurodegenerative disorders [1], I think there's a simpler culprit: sugar. Metabolism of simple sugars changes biochemical gears, and we as a culture and society are heavy on its use. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882347

matthewdgreen 5y ago
Sugar definitely seems bad, but doesn't explain why simple fecal transplants are able to replicate many of the health effects of a low-carb diet without the actual diet, at least in some obese mice [1]. (PS I am definitely not an expert in this area, just someone who is tired of eating low-carb to maintain weight, and wondering why other people can just eat normal food.) [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6199268/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6199268/
- nebulous_two 5y ago
  The whole thing about fecal transplants is that the resulting changes in your microbiome make it so your pull to sugar is weakened. Your diet changes because your cravings change. Imagine how easy it would be if you craved food that was "good for you", or that your cravings for bad food were severely weakened. That's kinda what having a healthy microbiome is like

alimov 5y ago

Grain Brain is an interesting read that covers in a pop-sci way some of the various research being done.

b112 5y ago

The western high-fat/carb diet also seems to cause Akkermansia populations to drop The West, typically, eats a tiny, tiny fraction of the fat it used to. And also far less animal fat. Do you know what went in soups, stews? Bones, with fat, for flavour, and energy, and nutrition. What were pies made of? Pies, made to allow older apples and such, to be used past their best date? Loads of animal fat in the crust. And, especially in Canada, our pork is now leaner than beef was 50 years ago! And our beef is silly lean. We eat far, far less fat than our ancestors, who would never throw away such valuable, nutritious calories. If the simple metric is, why were we thin before, and overweight now? And if the answer is "our diet changed", then this logic means we should all be eating about 10x the calories we currently do, in animal fat, and tapering off the rest. What if all those craving are just simply "the body needs more nutritious fat". Just like our ancestors ate. What if we crave salty snacks, coated in vegetable oil (potato chips), because our body desperately wants salty fat? Being overweight is far, far more unhealthy than eating more animal fat daily. What if the cost of low fat diets, is an irresistable urge which causes weight gain? If so, low fat diets are, therefore, very unhealthy... because being overweight is far worse.

hombre_fatal 5y ago
I’d focus on getting fruit, vegetables, legumes, fiber, and everything that comes with it back into the western diet before I’d look at animal fat as the silver bullet we’re missing. Too few animal products doesn’t seem like the thing the SAD is missing, either.
- oblak 5y ago
  Indeed. All this talk about a proper diet without ever mentioning anything but animal flesh and fat. Can't be the excess food intake. Like too much sweets and meat. No. Fat people are not eating enough fat. It's so simple.
  - wincy 5y ago
    I mean I lost 80 pounds literally eating cheap hot dogs and kimchi for 6 months. It might be that simple.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

Still, I am eagerly awaiting the day when someone conclusively nails the obesity epidemic down to something as simple as gut dysbiosis. That's unlikely to happen. Nutritional content of produce has gone down, people eat fewer home-cooked meals and we drive more and walk less, among other things. So it's not likely to boil down to "This one simple trick!" that can be solved with a simple product one can buy for cheap.

matthewdgreen 5y ago
If you look at the timing of the obesity epidemic you notice that it has a very sharp “knee” in the US around the 1970s. It does not coincide with the introduction of fast food or the automobile or sedentary living, and contemporary people exercise more in many cases than they did in the 60s and 70s, with vastly higher BMI as a result. The same pattern occurs in other countries just at later times. And the effect size is huge. Much larger than anything we can achieve with diet and exercise (durably) or even the best weight loss drugs. I don’t know what’s causing it, but “gosh people eat poorly” doesn’t seem like a good explanation. I thought this was a good (amateur, but accessible) summary of some of the stats: https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/amp/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...
- lenocinor 5y ago
  This is a startling and very interesting article. Thank you!
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  I don’t know what’s causing it, but “gosh people eat poorly” doesn’t seem like a good explanation. I'm not sure what your point is because what I said boils down to "There seem to be multiple factors, not any one thing." I've lost multiple dress sizes by improving my health when losing weight wasn't a goal at all. Among other things, that experience informs my views and I don't really know how to engage whatever point you are trying to make that seems to not really engage with anything I actually said. But thank you for the link. It's got a take I hadn't previously seen.

tayo42 5y ago

what does a non western diet include that is so much more healthy? In my limited experience it doesn't seem that way or atleast you can pick and choose what you want. Rice is a big thing and white rice has a high glycemic index. or cooking with ghee, or coconut milk or fatty cuts of meat

sangnoir 5y ago

> Still, I am eagerly awaiting the day when someone conclusively nails the obesity epidemic down to something as simple as gut dysbiosis. On average, what is the daily caloric surplus (calories in - calories out) for Americans vs. the rest of the world? I suspect going for exotic/complex explanations for obesity may not be necessary, therefore think change is gut bacteria is an effect, not a cause of obesity. Lot's of other places have a high-carb diet (staples are rice- or corn-based), and yet do not have obesity crises because those areas also have low mechanization, high levels of menial labor and walking