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Well the Canadian government decided to suspend the charter over a protest, so if anything to me that just shows the opposite of what you are saying (that peopl

Well the Canadian government decided to suspend the charter over a protest, so if anything to me that just shows the opposite of what you are saying (that people are supposedly just hysterical about a loss of rights that doesn't exist). And before you say that it was nothing out of the ordinary, remember that even during the Oka Crisis the federal government did not take such extreme measures. That was a multi week armed standoff with hundreds of armed combatants, killed police officers, led to a very damaging blockade around montreal. Yet, no charter was suspended and the federal government did not do everything to antagonize the Mohawks. Pretty crazy compared to what happened in ottawa. So there is definitely a reason to be worried, and saying that it's worse somewhere else is irrelevant. Or do we just dismiss any social justice movement too since wow, they are complaining about trivial stuff compared to the sacrifice ukrainians are making?

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
lol, a "protest". Please. Listen, I'm 48 years old and have been protesting since I was a teen. I've been teargassed, pepper sprayed, charged by horse mounted police, faced a line of riot cops. Mostly after said protest went, maybe, I dunno, one hour past what its permitted time was or beyond some fenced area, or encroached near where a gov't figure was. I wasn't at it, but for kicks some time, google "g20 kettling toronto" and see what happened to protesters peacefully sitting in the middle of an intersection in Toronto in a vaguely festive atmosphere when the police decide to go completely apeshit and actually really violate people's charter rights. These anti-vax "protesters" blocked two international border crossings, harassed people in downtown Ottawa, blasted horns, kept stores closed, displayed hate speech and flags, threatened public officials, kept illegal firearms, the list goes on. For weeks. Many weeks. 24/7. "supend the charter" -- much more extreme measures have been taken against myself and others I've protested with -- they just didn't bother to "suspend the charter" officially before doing it. They just did it. Threw people in detention, searched their crap illegally, whatever they felt like doing. Because that's what police do to actual protesters, as opposed to wanky authoritarian far-right neo-fascists that they publicly sympathize with. They didn't suspend the charter in the Oka crisis because they didn't need to. They just tear gassed, used concussion grenades, arrested and beat people (Ronaldo Casalpro) in captivity. Or used bayonets on them (Waneek Horn-Miller). The charter had to be "suspended" and governments were forced to intervene because the police refused to do their job... a job they are far far too eager to exercise when it's people they don't agree with. Charter is a piece of paper.
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  Amazing that you were a protester that faced abuse yet you still use the same exact dismissive rhetoric the government uses to excuse every abuse and crackdown against protests. The G20 protests weren't protest, they were just riots from wannabe terrorists. See how easy it is to just do what you did? And yeah sure the charter is just a piece of paper, but again I'm not sure what's your point. You are basically arguing that we might as well not even try. Remember that that piece of paper will be used against you and I'm not sure how far that "it's just a piece of paper!" Argument will go with a judge. The Charter is extremely weak, but this is still an unprecedented reaction in the post war western world. Over a bunch of truckers and 0 violence. Also, you are repeating literal fake news. The guy with the nazi flag lasted for a few minutes before getting kicked out by the rest of the protesters. Again, if you participated in the g20 protests and cannot see how easy it is to plant agitators or use one off events to justify discrediting a whole protest... My point here is that no matter what's your stance on the vaccine (and I'm extremely pro vaccine, I probably went in person with more than a dozen of my friends and co-workers to get them vaccinated if they were afraid/hesitant), the rhetoric around the trucker rally is extremely dangerous. It is setting a precedent, and next time we get a first nation protest/blockade, or a BLM protest (both of which I usually support) under a more conservative government, let's hope that the charter won't be seen as just a piece of paper again.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

lol, a "protest". Please. Listen, I'm 48 years old and have been protesting since I was a teen. I've been teargassed, pepper sprayed, charged by horse mounted police, faced a line of riot cops. Mostly after said protest went, maybe, I dunno, one hour past what its permitted time was or beyond some fenced area, or encroached near where a gov't figure was. I wasn't at it, but for kicks some time, google "g20 kettling toronto" and see what happened to protesters peacefully sitting in the middle of an intersection in Toronto in a vaguely festive atmosphere when the police decide to go completely apeshit and actually really violate people's charter rights. These anti-vax "protesters" blocked two international border crossings, harassed people in downtown Ottawa, blasted horns, kept stores closed, displayed hate speech and flags, threatened public officials, kept illegal firearms, the list goes on. For weeks. Many weeks. 24/7. "supend the charter" -- much more extreme measures have been taken against myself and others I've protested with -- they just didn't bother to "suspend the charter" officially before doing it. They just did it. Threw people in detention, searched their crap illegally, whatever they felt like doing. Because that's what police do to actual protesters, as opposed to wanky authoritarian far-right neo-fascists that they publicly sympathize with. They didn't suspend the charter in the Oka crisis because they didn't need to. They just tear gassed, used concussion grenades, arrested and beat people (Ronaldo Casalpro) in captivity. Or used bayonets on them (Waneek Horn-Miller). The charter had to be "suspended" and governments were forced to intervene because the police refused to do their job... a job they are far far too eager to exercise when it's people they don't agree with. Charter is a piece of paper.

mardifoufs 5y ago
Amazing that you were a protester that faced abuse yet you still use the same exact dismissive rhetoric the government uses to excuse every abuse and crackdown against protests. The G20 protests weren't protest, they were just riots from wannabe terrorists. See how easy it is to just do what you did? And yeah sure the charter is just a piece of paper, but again I'm not sure what's your point. You are basically arguing that we might as well not even try. Remember that that piece of paper will be used against you and I'm not sure how far that "it's just a piece of paper!" Argument will go with a judge. The Charter is extremely weak, but this is still an unprecedented reaction in the post war western world. Over a bunch of truckers and 0 violence. Also, you are repeating literal fake news. The guy with the nazi flag lasted for a few minutes before getting kicked out by the rest of the protesters. Again, if you participated in the g20 protests and cannot see how easy it is to plant agitators or use one off events to justify discrediting a whole protest... My point here is that no matter what's your stance on the vaccine (and I'm extremely pro vaccine, I probably went in person with more than a dozen of my friends and co-workers to get them vaccinated if they were afraid/hesitant), the rhetoric around the trucker rally is extremely dangerous. It is setting a precedent, and next time we get a first nation protest/blockade, or a BLM protest (both of which I usually support) under a more conservative government, let's hope that the charter won't be seen as just a piece of paper again.