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"Blacklist" and "whitelist" suck anyway because they require the cultural knowledge that "black is bad and white is good" to understand their meaning. "Allowlis

by astura 5y ago

"Blacklist" and "whitelist" suck anyway because they require the cultural knowledge that "black is bad and white is good" to understand their meaning. "Allowlist" and "denylist" don't require any cultural background to understand - their names are purely descriptive. They are just better terms.

bloak 5y ago
What about "redlist" and "greenlist"? The association between "red" and "stop", and between "green" and "go", seem more arbitrary than the associations with "black" and "white" but almost everyone in the world is familiar with traffic lights. (And the inhabitants of the North Sentinel Island probably don't need to configure mail servers or whatever.)
- svachalek 5y ago
  Red and green mean stop/go but only in a narrow context. I would have no idea what redlist and greenlist means. Red and green also bring to mind Christmas and Martians. Red means communism, green means environmentalism. Green means money, red means a negative entry in your account. There's a lot of culture-specific meanings too. Red in China is associated with good fortune and happiness.
- lxgr 5y ago
  Red and green traffic lights (and indeed even the distinction between green and blue) are not universally understood either: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/02/25/language/the-japanese-traffic-light-blues-stop-on-red-go-on-what/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/02/25/language/the-ja... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%E2%80%93green_distinction_in_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%E2%80%93green_distinction... What's your objection to "allowlist" (or "golist") and "denylist"/"blocklist"/"stoplist"? It's not often that we have an almost universally better alternative, but at least to me it seems like this is the case here. (Yes, allow/deny have one syllable more each, but I think we'll live.)
  - bloak 5y ago
    I'm aware that many languages don't distinguish blue and green, but English does distinguish them and we're talking about English terminology here. (Apparently in Japan the green traffic lights are officially allowed to be slightly bluer than in other countries because the word they use for them includes blue: an interesting case of language changing the world.) I don't like "allowlist" and "denylist" because they sound wrong to me: perhaps because the first element of a compound should be a noun, not a verb, but that's just an attempt to explain what I feel. I don't like "blocklist" because that sounds like a list of blocks, something in a file system. Of the ones you mention, I think I'd probably prefer "golist" and "stoplist", which I hadn't really considered before. They're also shorter than "allowlist" and "denylist". According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term "stop list" has been in use since 1920, but "go list" is not recorded.
nix23 5y ago
Blacklist has nothing to do with skin-color...you fall in the same trap as those wannabe corrector's: >>His memory was stored with a black list of the enemies and rivals, who had traduced his merit, opposed his greatness, or insulted his misfortunes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklisting#Origins_of_the_term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklisting#Origins_of_the_te...
- astura 5y ago
  Excuse me? I didn't claimed it did. Nor do I think it does. Like what the actual fuck? I sincerely hope this was meant to be a reply to someone else, otherwise you need to drastically improve your reading comprehension.

by astura 5y ago

bloak 5y ago

What about "redlist" and "greenlist"? The association between "red" and "stop", and between "green" and "go", seem more arbitrary than the associations with "black" and "white" but almost everyone in the world is familiar with traffic lights. (And the inhabitants of the North Sentinel Island probably don't need to configure mail servers or whatever.)

svachalek 5y ago
Red and green mean stop/go but only in a narrow context. I would have no idea what redlist and greenlist means. Red and green also bring to mind Christmas and Martians. Red means communism, green means environmentalism. Green means money, red means a negative entry in your account. There's a lot of culture-specific meanings too. Red in China is associated with good fortune and happiness.
lxgr 5y ago
Red and green traffic lights (and indeed even the distinction between green and blue) are not universally understood either: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/02/25/language/the-japanese-traffic-light-blues-stop-on-red-go-on-what/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2013/02/25/language/the-ja... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%E2%80%93green_distinction_in_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%E2%80%93green_distinction... What's your objection to "allowlist" (or "golist") and "denylist"/"blocklist"/"stoplist"? It's not often that we have an almost universally better alternative, but at least to me it seems like this is the case here. (Yes, allow/deny have one syllable more each, but I think we'll live.)
- bloak 5y ago
  I'm aware that many languages don't distinguish blue and green, but English does distinguish them and we're talking about English terminology here. (Apparently in Japan the green traffic lights are officially allowed to be slightly bluer than in other countries because the word they use for them includes blue: an interesting case of language changing the world.) I don't like "allowlist" and "denylist" because they sound wrong to me: perhaps because the first element of a compound should be a noun, not a verb, but that's just an attempt to explain what I feel. I don't like "blocklist" because that sounds like a list of blocks, something in a file system. Of the ones you mention, I think I'd probably prefer "golist" and "stoplist", which I hadn't really considered before. They're also shorter than "allowlist" and "denylist". According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term "stop list" has been in use since 1920, but "go list" is not recorded.

nix23 5y ago

Blacklist has nothing to do with skin-color...you fall in the same trap as those wannabe corrector's: >>His memory was stored with a black list of the enemies and rivals, who had traduced his merit, opposed his greatness, or insulted his misfortunes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklisting#Origins_of_the_term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklisting#Origins_of_the_te...

astura 5y ago
Excuse me? I didn't claimed it did. Nor do I think it does. Like what the actual fuck? I sincerely hope this was meant to be a reply to someone else, otherwise you need to drastically improve your reading comprehension.