6 ms·

If we're going to play this game, I think dissuading people from using "mother" in the example of "motherboard" is offensive. Mothers are the source of human li

If we're going to play this game, I think dissuading people from using "mother" in the example of "motherboard" is offensive. Mothers are the source of human life on earth, and in that capacity are revered and honored. When we say motherboard, we're making an analogy that suggests the board's significance and universal connection to everything. To discourage the term as an analogy for things that are a universal source is to demote women and their role as mothers. I'd like to know who at Google puts these lists together and what judge decreed their viewpoint on this more valid than mine or anyone else's, since apparently Google feels that from this judgement they have the right to shape speech for millions of people and therefore, by extension, our culture.

azth 5y ago
It's the natural outcome of far leftist ideologies. People need to wake up and start rejecting this destructive ideology where a person is evaluated only based on their identity. I think MLK had something to say about that.
- LordDragonfang 5y ago
  MLK was a leftist - and arguably a "far leftist" for his time. If you're going to use him as an example, you may have to concede that this is not a "natural outcome" of leftist ideologies in general, but rather the outcome of some other selection pressure that rewards diversion from initiatives that actually affect peoples' material conditions.
  - azth 5y ago
    I'm referring to modern far leftism, an offshoot from Marxism and post modernism.
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      As a first comment here, I'd point out that defining women independently from solely their role as mothers is judging them on character rather than identity, so you should support such a thing if that's your rallying cry. But also, on MLK and postmodernism: postmodernism dates back to the 1940s, To Kill a Mockingbird is postmodern. MLK's Letter From a Birmingham Jail is very clearly postmodern (e.g. when he says "But I am sorry that your statement did not express a similar concern for the conditions that brought the demonstrations into being.", he's alluding to a failure to consider the viewpoint of the oppressed in the situation). That letter is also very modern-leftist. Kimberle Crenshaw coined the term "intersectionality" in 1989 and elaborated on it in 1991, saying "When feminism does not explicitly oppose racism, and when anti-racism does not incorporate oppposition to patriarchy race and gender politics often end up being antagonistic to each other, and both interests lose". The letter from a Birmingham jail includes another famous line from MLK: " Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly". To me, those express similar sentiments: that oppression exists in many forms in many places, and it is unwise to pretend that oppression that fails to inconvenience me is therefore unworthy of my attention. And of course he says later on "there is a type of constructive nonviolent tension that is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must see the need of having nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men to rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. " which to me describes the people often criticized as "modern far leftists", those people who create the tension and discomfort in society are, in MLK's view, doing us, collectively, a great service. I'd recommend you read the whole letter[0]. If you're so willing to lionize MLK, but disagree with so much of what he preached, I implore you to consider why exactly that is. [0]: https://www.csuchico.edu/iege/_assets/documents/susi-letter-from-birmingham-jail.pdf https://www.csuchico.edu/iege/_assets/documents/susi-letter-...
      - azth 5y ago
        I only used MLK because he's a Western figure that stood up to racism. For us as Muslims, Islam set the guidelines on these issues a long long time ago. All people are equal under God, skin color does not matter. The only thing that matters at the end when we stand in front of Him is who comes with the most piety and good deeds, as those will determine where you end up.
        joshuamorton 5y ago
        This doesn't conflict with CRT or modern leftism though. If God's accounting of our deeds is perfect (or if God doesn't exist) should have no impact on our actions. It would be sinful to let injustice persist solely because God will even things out in the end. God doesn't give us an excuse to abdicate our responsibility.
        azth 5y ago
        This doesn't contradict what I wrote. Islam explicitly rejects racism, and makes it sinful. Because we're equal in front of God, this means that anyone treating someone else differently because of their skin color, race, etc. is going to be accountable in front of God for this sin. It seems you're engaging in a straw man fallacy saying that we don't need to do anything because we're all eventually accountable in front of God. Islam never said that. Several texts and accounts explicitly call out racism as a sin. CRT is a fringe offshoot that swings the pendulum so far out, it goes back to being racist, ironically enough. It is not the beacon of equality that its supporters claim it is.
        joshuamorton 5y ago
        > Islam never said that. I agree, I never claimed Islam said that. I claim you said that, which misrepresents Islam! > CRT is a fringe offshoot that swings the pendulum so far out, it goes back to being racist, ironically enough. What about CRT does this? The core idea of CRT (as you use it) is, I think the recognition that inequality exists, that some people mistreat others and that we should recognize that when it happens. What about that is racist?
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  MLK explicitly supported affirmative action and other programs designed explicitly to benefit black people in order to make up for past discrimination. I suspect he would be tired of being used as a justification for absolute colorblindness.
  - Tr3nton 5y ago
    So Affirmative Action is revenge discrimination?
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      No. MLK considered it to be a step on the path to equality.
  - troupe 5y ago
    What he stood for changed over time, but at one point he said he hoped the decisions people made about his children would be made based on his children's character and not the color of their skin.
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      Yes he did say that one line in one speech. But if you review the totality of his writing, it is very clear that total colorblindness in the face of inequality was not his goal. The "I Have A Dream" does not represent some shift away from an earlier opinion. It simply doesn't represent the opinion that a lot of reactionaries think it does.
  - saalweachter 5y ago
    There's a long-running joke about MLK giving exactly one speech and never saying anything else.
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      Not even just one speech. Literally just one line!
- bee_rider 5y ago
  I don't think it is. It is more of a natural outcome of silly corporatists not really understanding why leftists and progressives object to things, and so just reflexively avoiding anything that could be, however tenuously, linked to gender. They are concern trolling themselves.
  - redisman 5y ago
    It’s bubbling up from cloistered academia. Not corporations. Corporations do the bare minimum to get the annoying people to shut up
skrbjc 5y ago
But that's implying that only mothers give birth, and erases those who don't identify as mothers who give birth. That's how I understand their thinking, at least. I agree with you and think anyone who is offended by motherboard is silly. I'm sure it was never even anyone that was actually offended, but a group of people sitting down and looking at any and every word that has any type of gender connotation and saying that's a bad thing.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- positus 5y ago
  Ontology will always and forever trump autonomy.
shp0ngle 5y ago
The official PC term is now “birthing person”, “birthing people”, “people giving birth” and similar. Think of that what you will.
- bombcar 5y ago
  Which completely loses that for many people, their mother is NOT the woman who gave birth to them.
  - imglorp 5y ago
    English has such a rich array of word choices for many parental situations, with many subtle variations conveying tone and meaning. MW has roughly 83 synonyms including both noun and verb forms, just for mother. I don't see how choosing any one of them for my particular situation will detract from anyone else's identity or journey: they are free to chose as well. Unless your tool bans 82 of them.
- snek_case 5y ago
  I think this completely falls apart because most of the women who give birth identify as mothers, and would be very offended if you told them they couldn't. I wish there was more pushback against this insanity. I've also seen people want to erase the word "blindspot" from the dictionary... Even though I'm sure no blind person was ever offended by it, because that word typically is used to refer to the limits of people who aren't blind.
- layer8 5y ago
  I’m looking forward to birthing-person-in-law jokes.
- nonameiguess 5y ago
  That can't possibly be true. If nothing else, it's erasure of adoptive parents, or mothers who didn't give birth, among which gay married couples are overrepresented. I realize there is infighting and factionalism even within minority communities, but come on, this stuff doesn't ring true. I've never heard someone called a birthing person outside of a joke. For what it's worth, in support of the original comment's claim, I just dug around the Pixelbook documentation all over the place and I can't find any mention of the motherboard. But it doesn't seem they renamed it to "mainboard" or "birthing person board." They just dropped it from the specification completely and don't tell you anything about what kind of motherboard you're getting.
mattkrause 5y ago
What about a motherboard is specifically maternal?
- klyrs 5y ago
  Better question, are PCBs viviparous or oviparous?
  - mattkrause 5y ago
    Viaparous, obviously.
- canadaduane 5y ago
  I've always associated motherboards with motherships--the larger thing in charge of making all the other little things behave well together.
- hnburnsy 5y ago
  Maybe because expansion boards were called daughterboards? https://www.techopedia.com/definition/6772/daughterboard https://www.techopedia.com/definition/6772/daughterboard
  - mattkrause 5y ago
    Sure. The OED even lists them as contemporary coinages: [1965 Wireless World July 49/2 (advt.) Contact tail variations..include..tails for direct mounting to a ‘mother’ printed circuit board.] 1965 Electronics 6 Sept. 36/1 Nine daughterboards, each carrying 30 circuit packages, go on each side of a motherboard. However, that's just an analogy: it doesn't actually tell you anything about what the motherboard does or why. In that sense, I think mainboard is actually a bit more descriptive: it's the principal interconnect between all of the device's parts.
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      Why not just… the “board”? It’s the only board. There are no other boards, as the things they used to call daughterboards are now “cards”. You plug cards into the board. Board goes into case.
nullc 5y ago
> is to demote women and their role as mothers. Their role as breeders and birthing people, you mean. Time for a trip to HR for you. > they have the right to shape speech for millions of people and therefore, Google', "Do the right thing" could be understood as "if you have the power to do something, you have the obligation to do so". I'd say someone forgot that most evil in the world is done by people convinced that they're doing the right thing, but if that were forgotten the old motto wouldn't have been an impediment. You could ask what idiot gave google this power, but the answer-- to the extent that they have it-- is each and every one of us. Fortunately, it lasts only as long as we keep giving it to them.
Pxtl 5y ago
I know we all see this as a slippery slope, but let's remember what's at the other end of the slope. Anyhow, you might find it awkward, but the general assumption that "parent" is synonymous with "mother" to the exclusion of all other kinds of parents does real damage to inclusiveness, and the term "motherboard" flows from that. I know your tongue is in cheek, but the mainboard may be considered a parent of the components, but it is not giving birth to them. "Parent" fits better than "mother". So your absurdist counter-argument doesn't really fit here. We're programmers. We refactor mercilessly. Why shouldn't language be refactored mercilessly too? The term "mainboard" is available, widely understood, and well-adopted, so why not use that?
- cornel_io 5y ago
  Why not? Because we don't want to keep handing out stupid prizes to the weenies that constantly force us to play these stupid games. Every time they win they're further emboldened, and that's not a good thing, since there are actual problems to solve.
- akomtu 5y ago
  You can refactor a piece of software you wrote, or a piece of your employer's software with his permission. But language doesn't belong to anyone, it's a collective consensus on how to say things. If you believe you have authority to ignore this consensus and force your opinion on others, you must have an incredibly inflated ego.
  - cookie_monsta 5y ago
    What I like about this comment is that it can be read as being either in favour or against what Google is doing here.
- blibble 5y ago
  at this rate every word in English is going to be "main"
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

azth 5y ago

It's the natural outcome of far leftist ideologies. People need to wake up and start rejecting this destructive ideology where a person is evaluated only based on their identity. I think MLK had something to say about that.

LordDragonfang 5y ago
MLK was a leftist - and arguably a "far leftist" for his time. If you're going to use him as an example, you may have to concede that this is not a "natural outcome" of leftist ideologies in general, but rather the outcome of some other selection pressure that rewards diversion from initiatives that actually affect peoples' material conditions.
- azth 5y ago
  I'm referring to modern far leftism, an offshoot from Marxism and post modernism.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    As a first comment here, I'd point out that defining women independently from solely their role as mothers is judging them on character rather than identity, so you should support such a thing if that's your rallying cry. But also, on MLK and postmodernism: postmodernism dates back to the 1940s, To Kill a Mockingbird is postmodern. MLK's Letter From a Birmingham Jail is very clearly postmodern (e.g. when he says "But I am sorry that your statement did not express a similar concern for the conditions that brought the demonstrations into being.", he's alluding to a failure to consider the viewpoint of the oppressed in the situation). That letter is also very modern-leftist. Kimberle Crenshaw coined the term "intersectionality" in 1989 and elaborated on it in 1991, saying "When feminism does not explicitly oppose racism, and when anti-racism does not incorporate oppposition to patriarchy race and gender politics often end up being antagonistic to each other, and both interests lose". The letter from a Birmingham jail includes another famous line from MLK: " Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly". To me, those express similar sentiments: that oppression exists in many forms in many places, and it is unwise to pretend that oppression that fails to inconvenience me is therefore unworthy of my attention. And of course he says later on "there is a type of constructive nonviolent tension that is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must see the need of having nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men to rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. " which to me describes the people often criticized as "modern far leftists", those people who create the tension and discomfort in society are, in MLK's view, doing us, collectively, a great service. I'd recommend you read the whole letter[0]. If you're so willing to lionize MLK, but disagree with so much of what he preached, I implore you to consider why exactly that is. [0]: https://www.csuchico.edu/iege/_assets/documents/susi-letter-from-birmingham-jail.pdf https://www.csuchico.edu/iege/_assets/documents/susi-letter-...
    - azth 5y ago
      I only used MLK because he's a Western figure that stood up to racism. For us as Muslims, Islam set the guidelines on these issues a long long time ago. All people are equal under God, skin color does not matter. The only thing that matters at the end when we stand in front of Him is who comes with the most piety and good deeds, as those will determine where you end up.
      - joshuamorton 5y ago
        This doesn't conflict with CRT or modern leftism though. If God's accounting of our deeds is perfect (or if God doesn't exist) should have no impact on our actions. It would be sinful to let injustice persist solely because God will even things out in the end. God doesn't give us an excuse to abdicate our responsibility.
        azth 5y ago
        This doesn't contradict what I wrote. Islam explicitly rejects racism, and makes it sinful. Because we're equal in front of God, this means that anyone treating someone else differently because of their skin color, race, etc. is going to be accountable in front of God for this sin. It seems you're engaging in a straw man fallacy saying that we don't need to do anything because we're all eventually accountable in front of God. Islam never said that. Several texts and accounts explicitly call out racism as a sin. CRT is a fringe offshoot that swings the pendulum so far out, it goes back to being racist, ironically enough. It is not the beacon of equality that its supporters claim it is.
        joshuamorton 5y ago
        > Islam never said that. I agree, I never claimed Islam said that. I claim you said that, which misrepresents Islam! > CRT is a fringe offshoot that swings the pendulum so far out, it goes back to being racist, ironically enough. What about CRT does this? The core idea of CRT (as you use it) is, I think the recognition that inequality exists, that some people mistreat others and that we should recognize that when it happens. What about that is racist?
UncleMeat 5y ago
MLK explicitly supported affirmative action and other programs designed explicitly to benefit black people in order to make up for past discrimination. I suspect he would be tired of being used as a justification for absolute colorblindness.
- Tr3nton 5y ago
  So Affirmative Action is revenge discrimination?
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    No. MLK considered it to be a step on the path to equality.
- troupe 5y ago
  What he stood for changed over time, but at one point he said he hoped the decisions people made about his children would be made based on his children's character and not the color of their skin.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    Yes he did say that one line in one speech. But if you review the totality of his writing, it is very clear that total colorblindness in the face of inequality was not his goal. The "I Have A Dream" does not represent some shift away from an earlier opinion. It simply doesn't represent the opinion that a lot of reactionaries think it does.
- saalweachter 5y ago
  There's a long-running joke about MLK giving exactly one speech and never saying anything else.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    Not even just one speech. Literally just one line!
bee_rider 5y ago
I don't think it is. It is more of a natural outcome of silly corporatists not really understanding why leftists and progressives object to things, and so just reflexively avoiding anything that could be, however tenuously, linked to gender. They are concern trolling themselves.
- redisman 5y ago
  It’s bubbling up from cloistered academia. Not corporations. Corporations do the bare minimum to get the annoying people to shut up

skrbjc 5y ago

But that's implying that only mothers give birth, and erases those who don't identify as mothers who give birth. That's how I understand their thinking, at least. I agree with you and think anyone who is offended by motherboard is silly. I'm sure it was never even anyone that was actually offended, but a group of people sitting down and looking at any and every word that has any type of gender connotation and saying that's a bad thing.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
positus 5y ago
Ontology will always and forever trump autonomy.

shp0ngle 5y ago

The official PC term is now “birthing person”, “birthing people”, “people giving birth” and similar. Think of that what you will.

bombcar 5y ago
Which completely loses that for many people, their mother is NOT the woman who gave birth to them.
- imglorp 5y ago
  English has such a rich array of word choices for many parental situations, with many subtle variations conveying tone and meaning. MW has roughly 83 synonyms including both noun and verb forms, just for mother. I don't see how choosing any one of them for my particular situation will detract from anyone else's identity or journey: they are free to chose as well. Unless your tool bans 82 of them.
snek_case 5y ago
I think this completely falls apart because most of the women who give birth identify as mothers, and would be very offended if you told them they couldn't. I wish there was more pushback against this insanity. I've also seen people want to erase the word "blindspot" from the dictionary... Even though I'm sure no blind person was ever offended by it, because that word typically is used to refer to the limits of people who aren't blind.
layer8 5y ago
I’m looking forward to birthing-person-in-law jokes.
nonameiguess 5y ago
That can't possibly be true. If nothing else, it's erasure of adoptive parents, or mothers who didn't give birth, among which gay married couples are overrepresented. I realize there is infighting and factionalism even within minority communities, but come on, this stuff doesn't ring true. I've never heard someone called a birthing person outside of a joke. For what it's worth, in support of the original comment's claim, I just dug around the Pixelbook documentation all over the place and I can't find any mention of the motherboard. But it doesn't seem they renamed it to "mainboard" or "birthing person board." They just dropped it from the specification completely and don't tell you anything about what kind of motherboard you're getting.

mattkrause 5y ago

What about a motherboard is specifically maternal?

klyrs 5y ago
Better question, are PCBs viviparous or oviparous?
- mattkrause 5y ago
  Viaparous, obviously.
canadaduane 5y ago
I've always associated motherboards with motherships--the larger thing in charge of making all the other little things behave well together.
hnburnsy 5y ago
Maybe because expansion boards were called daughterboards? https://www.techopedia.com/definition/6772/daughterboard https://www.techopedia.com/definition/6772/daughterboard
- mattkrause 5y ago
  Sure. The OED even lists them as contemporary coinages: [1965 Wireless World July 49/2 (advt.) Contact tail variations..include..tails for direct mounting to a ‘mother’ printed circuit board.] 1965 Electronics 6 Sept. 36/1 Nine daughterboards, each carrying 30 circuit packages, go on each side of a motherboard. However, that's just an analogy: it doesn't actually tell you anything about what the motherboard does or why. In that sense, I think mainboard is actually a bit more descriptive: it's the principal interconnect between all of the device's parts.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    Why not just… the “board”? It’s the only board. There are no other boards, as the things they used to call daughterboards are now “cards”. You plug cards into the board. Board goes into case.

nullc 5y ago

> is to demote women and their role as mothers. Their role as breeders and birthing people, you mean. Time for a trip to HR for you. > they have the right to shape speech for millions of people and therefore, Google', "Do the right thing" could be understood as "if you have the power to do something, you have the obligation to do so". I'd say someone forgot that most evil in the world is done by people convinced that they're doing the right thing, but if that were forgotten the old motto wouldn't have been an impediment. You could ask what idiot gave google this power, but the answer-- to the extent that they have it-- is each and every one of us. Fortunately, it lasts only as long as we keep giving it to them.

Pxtl 5y ago

I know we all see this as a slippery slope, but let's remember what's at the other end of the slope. Anyhow, you might find it awkward, but the general assumption that "parent" is synonymous with "mother" to the exclusion of all other kinds of parents does real damage to inclusiveness, and the term "motherboard" flows from that. I know your tongue is in cheek, but the mainboard may be considered a parent of the components, but it is not giving birth to them. "Parent" fits better than "mother". So your absurdist counter-argument doesn't really fit here. We're programmers. We refactor mercilessly. Why shouldn't language be refactored mercilessly too? The term "mainboard" is available, widely understood, and well-adopted, so why not use that?

cornel_io 5y ago
Why not? Because we don't want to keep handing out stupid prizes to the weenies that constantly force us to play these stupid games. Every time they win they're further emboldened, and that's not a good thing, since there are actual problems to solve.
akomtu 5y ago
You can refactor a piece of software you wrote, or a piece of your employer's software with his permission. But language doesn't belong to anyone, it's a collective consensus on how to say things. If you believe you have authority to ignore this consensus and force your opinion on others, you must have an incredibly inflated ego.
- cookie_monsta 5y ago
  What I like about this comment is that it can be read as being either in favour or against what Google is doing here.
blibble 5y ago
at this rate every word in English is going to be "main"
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]