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> The reason these companies keep faltering is that they push cloud-based and/or locked in product ecosystems. I agree. It's a shame because Insteon products w

> The reason these companies keep faltering is that they push cloud-based and/or locked in product ecosystems. I agree. It's a shame because Insteon products were pretty good for their time, for the most part. Granted, I never used their cloud stuff at all -- only local control (via ISY99 and later also Home Assistant). Though I'd say this was a long time coming; it had been nearly a decade since any new products came out. Early on, their power-line-only stuff was sketchy and had issues, but my later experience with the dual-band stuff was great. I had many devices in my last house (sold with the house). I bought all new zwave stuff for this house, because of the lack of anything new and I figured Insteon was a dying brand. Glad I did that. My biggest frustration is there's still no equivalent for the Insteon KeypadLinc. There's products that come close, and even have some additional features (that Insteon probably could have added via firmware), but nothing that stands out as overall better. The other thing that is still unmatched is the local linking. Zwave kind of has this ability with groups, but it's so much more complicated to setup and still less powerful (eg: I don't think you can set on-level or ramp-rate). It would be interesting to have more insight from Insteon as to what went wrong. Why did they stop innovating? I almost wonder if they bet big on cloud then sales didn't match their expectations. I'd be interesting to know what sales of Universal Devices ISY99 (and other similar 3rd party control products) were vs their own cloud-based controls -- I get the impression there were probably as many, if not more, ISY99 users than Insteon Cloud users.

Terretta 4y ago
> no equivalent for Insteon KeypadLinc there are a variety of HomeKit buttons that are sold as e.g. dimmers or multi-bulb, but in fact can trigger arbitrary homekit devices, scenes, automations, etc. i’m guessing these fall in the category you say “comes close”? an example of what i mean is “Philips Hue v2 Smart Dimmer Switch and Remote” which is actually 4 arbitrary device, scene, or automation buttons that magneticallly stays on wall or comes off to be a remote. there are also a few beautiful button sets made with wood, fabric, etc., launched on kickstarter. by working with homekit, you can be sure they will not require their proprietary cloud to stay functional. that said, i’m a fan of ipad touch wallmount, like this in white: https://www.amazon.com/VidaMount-Wall-iPod-5th-Mount/dp/B01N3QFQG5/ https://www.amazon.com/VidaMount-Wall-iPod-5th-Mount/dp/B01N... with this you get arbitrary button sets for arbitrary systems, and price is competitive with locked-in options — remember the very early days “Philips ProntoPro” universal remote with arbitrarily programmable LCD screens that could emulate any physical button layout? or if you want something that does that for limited scenes, plus AV remote any house guest can pick up and use without instruction, there’s the interesting LogiTech Harmony Hub with the “Companion All-in-One” remote that doesn’t have a screen but does have buttons for scenes, super useful if you’re in the Alexa or Hue systems. i use the on-remote buttons for the lights of the room the remote lives in.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  Unfortunately Logitech has discontinued the Harmony line. I would be very wary about starting off fresh with them, because they are reliant on Logitech's servers being available. That being said, you can pry my Harmony Ultimate from my cold, dead hands. I'm not looking forward to the day I have to get rid of it, because there's really nothing out there to replace it with.
- gregmac 4y ago
  For some context, here's one of my old keypads [1]: controlling outside lights, garage door (status plus control), and scene control (Welcome = several lights on the main floor; All off = very slow fade off of everything). The other one I really miss was in the kitchen and had "Bright", "Dim" and "Off" and controlled lights over the island + sink + under-cabinets + range-hood + some accent LED strips. Honestly I'm not a huge fan of the "weird looking button on the wall" approach of some of those devices. I have to replace wall switches anyway to get stuff to work, and I don't like "No, don't use THAT switch, press that little button thing next to it". The closest thing I found was a Zooz ZEN32 [2] which is what I'm trying now. Leviton makes one [3] which looks nothing like their z-wave dimmers. Lutron Caseta has some stuff that might work but I didn't want to go down that proprietary path (non-zwave). Inovelli is supposed to be making a 5-button controller [4], and their dimmers look great -- but the keypad is vaporware so far, and the rest of their switches have been out of stock everywhere for months. [1] https://i.imgur.com/jLmGpdT.png https://i.imgur.com/jLmGpdT.png [2] https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zen32-scene-controller/ https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zen32-scene-controller/ [3] https://www.leviton.com/en/products/VRCS4-M0Z https://www.leviton.com/en/products/VRCS4-M0Z [4] https://community.inovelli.com/t/z-wave-5-button-scene-controller-dimmer-switch-project-limitless/5162 https://community.inovelli.com/t/z-wave-5-button-scene-contr...
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Consider one of these: https://shelly.cloud/shelly-plus-i4/ https://shelly.cloud/shelly-plus-i4/ - or alternatively, if you have a lighting circuit wired to that switch, any other of their modules that also double as a relay.
  - 4y ago

Terretta 4y ago

> no equivalent for Insteon KeypadLinc there are a variety of HomeKit buttons that are sold as e.g. dimmers or multi-bulb, but in fact can trigger arbitrary homekit devices, scenes, automations, etc. i’m guessing these fall in the category you say “comes close”? an example of what i mean is “Philips Hue v2 Smart Dimmer Switch and Remote” which is actually 4 arbitrary device, scene, or automation buttons that magneticallly stays on wall or comes off to be a remote. there are also a few beautiful button sets made with wood, fabric, etc., launched on kickstarter. by working with homekit, you can be sure they will not require their proprietary cloud to stay functional. that said, i’m a fan of ipad touch wallmount, like this in white: https://www.amazon.com/VidaMount-Wall-iPod-5th-Mount/dp/B01N3QFQG5/ https://www.amazon.com/VidaMount-Wall-iPod-5th-Mount/dp/B01N... with this you get arbitrary button sets for arbitrary systems, and price is competitive with locked-in options — remember the very early days “Philips ProntoPro” universal remote with arbitrarily programmable LCD screens that could emulate any physical button layout? or if you want something that does that for limited scenes, plus AV remote any house guest can pick up and use without instruction, there’s the interesting LogiTech Harmony Hub with the “Companion All-in-One” remote that doesn’t have a screen but does have buttons for scenes, super useful if you’re in the Alexa or Hue systems. i use the on-remote buttons for the lights of the room the remote lives in.

jaywalk 4y ago
Unfortunately Logitech has discontinued the Harmony line. I would be very wary about starting off fresh with them, because they are reliant on Logitech's servers being available. That being said, you can pry my Harmony Ultimate from my cold, dead hands. I'm not looking forward to the day I have to get rid of it, because there's really nothing out there to replace it with.
gregmac 4y ago
For some context, here's one of my old keypads [1]: controlling outside lights, garage door (status plus control), and scene control (Welcome = several lights on the main floor; All off = very slow fade off of everything). The other one I really miss was in the kitchen and had "Bright", "Dim" and "Off" and controlled lights over the island + sink + under-cabinets + range-hood + some accent LED strips. Honestly I'm not a huge fan of the "weird looking button on the wall" approach of some of those devices. I have to replace wall switches anyway to get stuff to work, and I don't like "No, don't use THAT switch, press that little button thing next to it". The closest thing I found was a Zooz ZEN32 [2] which is what I'm trying now. Leviton makes one [3] which looks nothing like their z-wave dimmers. Lutron Caseta has some stuff that might work but I didn't want to go down that proprietary path (non-zwave). Inovelli is supposed to be making a 5-button controller [4], and their dimmers look great -- but the keypad is vaporware so far, and the rest of their switches have been out of stock everywhere for months. [1] https://i.imgur.com/jLmGpdT.png https://i.imgur.com/jLmGpdT.png [2] https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zen32-scene-controller/ https://www.getzooz.com/zooz-zen32-scene-controller/ [3] https://www.leviton.com/en/products/VRCS4-M0Z https://www.leviton.com/en/products/VRCS4-M0Z [4] https://community.inovelli.com/t/z-wave-5-button-scene-controller-dimmer-switch-project-limitless/5162 https://community.inovelli.com/t/z-wave-5-button-scene-contr...
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Consider one of these: https://shelly.cloud/shelly-plus-i4/ https://shelly.cloud/shelly-plus-i4/ - or alternatively, if you have a lighting circuit wired to that switch, any other of their modules that also double as a relay.
- 4y ago