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uh, just go to a bar if you want human to human interaction? don't make me talk to you. you've already said you hate introverts. i don't want to talk to someon

uh, just go to a bar if you want human to human interaction? don't make me talk to you. you've already said you hate introverts. i don't want to talk to someone like that

unethical_ban 5y ago
I don't hate introverts. In fact, I've become a little more sheltered than I was during the pandemic. My best friend is an introvert. Several acquaintances as well - people who are intelligent, kind, thoughtful, and in some ways better than I am. But that doesn't make it a healthy lifestyle when taken to the extreme. As it applies to work, I feel there is a war going on between those who recognize and remember the social and professional benefits of working in person and building professional relationships, and those who don't. I think extreme introversion is as unhealthy as eating poorly and refusing to exercise. Running isn't always fun, but we do it. Interacting with humans isn't always fun, but we do it.
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  > I think extreme introversion is as unhealthy as eating poorly and refusing to exercise You think being an introvert is so negative to your health that it will literally reduce your life expectancy? What exactly do you think introvert means?
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    The definition on dictionary.com that fits my understanding best is this: "A tendency to turn inward, first examined by Jung, which often results in avoidance of social contact, isolation and loneliness." I see introversion/social anxiety/disdain of others in the modern world to be like depression, or getting winded after going up one flight of stairs. It doesn't make you a worse person, but it shouldn't be embraced - it should be seen as something to periodically work against to keep the condition in check. When we get winded after walking up some stairs, we see we should go on more walks or jogs. When we have depression, it is beneficial to get therapy, change habits, and/or take medication. When one finds themselves disliking the idea of interacting with people (even the occasional stranger), that is a signal to periodically flex one's "emotional muscles" to counter the condition. I don't like making appointments on the phone anymore. It causes me anxiety. I find that to be a fault in myself. It is a flaw. I sometimes don't get back to friends quickly when they ask how I'm doing or if I want to hang out. That is a flaw, and one that I need to work on. I don't embrace it. When I have a negative feeling about "people" - like "ugh, people are so annoying" - I remember that is poisonous thinking to mental health and put the thought away. Or at least, I don't embrace it.
    - bluefirebrand 5y ago
      The way you are talking about it comes across as extremely judgemental, and most of it is just plain wrong. Nowadays it is generally accepted that introverts find socializing to be exhausting while extroverts find it energizing. That's the key difference. This is thought to be due to a physiological difference in how the autonomic nervous system function. It's not a muscle to be exercised. Also, how you draw parallels between introversion and mental illness is really telling about how you view it. Being an introvert isn't a "condition" or a "flaw", and not wanting to be involved in social gatherings that you aren't interested in is not unhealthy. Being anti social or a misanthrope is a completely different issue. It's estimated that between 25-40 percent of people are introverts. That's a massive population you are writing off as defective and "needing to work on it"
      - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
        > It's not a muscle to be exercised But maybe it should be. Just as you can lack physical strength and exercise to become stronger if you view that as desirable, you can be too introverted and work to become less so if you view your level of introversion as undesirable. OP isn't being unreasonable. It's certainly possible to find yourself in a position where you are extremely isolated. For some introverts that would be an ideal place to be, but for others it would be depressing and they would then have to learn how to become somewhat more extroverted. I think you're reading too much into what he's saying.
        bluefirebrand 5y ago
        > But maybe it should be This is just baffling to me. What are you even saying. Are you under the impression that being more social makes you less introverted? The way lifting weights makes your body stronger? It doesn't. It just makes you appear that way to ignorant people who still think being an introvert means you aren't very social. Being social is a skill you can practice. Being an introvert has nothing to do with that skill.
        5y ago
- johnwheeler 5y ago
  I think this idea of forced interaction with people we might not like is ridiculous and outmoded. I like interacting with family and friends. I do not like going to game nights or parties to meet new people. I don't like going to bars. I don't like being forced to interact with coworkers. So yeah, I recognize we're social animals and we have to interact to be healthy, but technology has made it such that it's now easier to be selective about who you interact with. That's a huge benefit. Why should I have to be forced to get along with some passive aggressive or outright aggressive asshole in the workplace more than necessary. I believe hanging out with such people who make you miserable causes premature death. I shouldn't have to change my attitude about such things if I'm happy with the friends and family I got and technology enables me.
  - closeparen 4y ago
    This is basically “atomization” and it’s a hot topic: certainly it can be comfortable and convenient and even profoundly important to many individuals, esp. people whose authentic selves are not accepted in broader society. At the same time there is such a thing as social cohesion. Ultimately we do have to cooperate beyond our friend groups on projects like the economy, government, defense, etc. Or we will get eaten by a culture that does. Already people were concerned that the kind of peers we meet at work and school are too much like us, too much of a bubble… now we are talking about not meeting even those people. Already we have tribes that cannot agree on fundamental conceptions of reality depending on which cable channels they watch… how’s it going to work when there are millions of totally independent information environments? If we are going back to the many-independent-clans structure our ancestors had, we probably also going back to their material standard of living and their exposure to violence. For a while, until we get slaughtered by or assimilated into a culture that can get people who aren’t necessarily friends or family to have lunch together in between raiding our huts.
  - dmatech 5y ago
    I wouldn't necessarily call it introversion. It borders on misanthropy. Collaboration and communication require sustained interaction with other people. Management requires even more than that. You can only get so much done by working on a Jira ticket in complete isolation. While it might work well enough for a mature group, it fails completely when bringing new people up to speed. I've worked with more than a few people like this. Perhaps they get all the social interaction they can handle at home and just want to be left alone at work. Or perhaps they just dislike their co-workers. Others find working in groups of more than two people to be difficult. I don't think it's strictly a personality trait. It's more of a cultural thing in some companies.

uh, just go to a bar if you want human to human interaction? don't make me talk to you. you've already said you hate introverts. i don't want to talk to someone like that

unethical_ban 5y ago

I don't hate introverts. In fact, I've become a little more sheltered than I was during the pandemic. My best friend is an introvert. Several acquaintances as well - people who are intelligent, kind, thoughtful, and in some ways better than I am. But that doesn't make it a healthy lifestyle when taken to the extreme. As it applies to work, I feel there is a war going on between those who recognize and remember the social and professional benefits of working in person and building professional relationships, and those who don't. I think extreme introversion is as unhealthy as eating poorly and refusing to exercise. Running isn't always fun, but we do it. Interacting with humans isn't always fun, but we do it.

bluefirebrand 5y ago
> I think extreme introversion is as unhealthy as eating poorly and refusing to exercise You think being an introvert is so negative to your health that it will literally reduce your life expectancy? What exactly do you think introvert means?
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  The definition on dictionary.com that fits my understanding best is this: "A tendency to turn inward, first examined by Jung, which often results in avoidance of social contact, isolation and loneliness." I see introversion/social anxiety/disdain of others in the modern world to be like depression, or getting winded after going up one flight of stairs. It doesn't make you a worse person, but it shouldn't be embraced - it should be seen as something to periodically work against to keep the condition in check. When we get winded after walking up some stairs, we see we should go on more walks or jogs. When we have depression, it is beneficial to get therapy, change habits, and/or take medication. When one finds themselves disliking the idea of interacting with people (even the occasional stranger), that is a signal to periodically flex one's "emotional muscles" to counter the condition. I don't like making appointments on the phone anymore. It causes me anxiety. I find that to be a fault in myself. It is a flaw. I sometimes don't get back to friends quickly when they ask how I'm doing or if I want to hang out. That is a flaw, and one that I need to work on. I don't embrace it. When I have a negative feeling about "people" - like "ugh, people are so annoying" - I remember that is poisonous thinking to mental health and put the thought away. Or at least, I don't embrace it.
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    The way you are talking about it comes across as extremely judgemental, and most of it is just plain wrong. Nowadays it is generally accepted that introverts find socializing to be exhausting while extroverts find it energizing. That's the key difference. This is thought to be due to a physiological difference in how the autonomic nervous system function. It's not a muscle to be exercised. Also, how you draw parallels between introversion and mental illness is really telling about how you view it. Being an introvert isn't a "condition" or a "flaw", and not wanting to be involved in social gatherings that you aren't interested in is not unhealthy. Being anti social or a misanthrope is a completely different issue. It's estimated that between 25-40 percent of people are introverts. That's a massive population you are writing off as defective and "needing to work on it"
    - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
      > It's not a muscle to be exercised But maybe it should be. Just as you can lack physical strength and exercise to become stronger if you view that as desirable, you can be too introverted and work to become less so if you view your level of introversion as undesirable. OP isn't being unreasonable. It's certainly possible to find yourself in a position where you are extremely isolated. For some introverts that would be an ideal place to be, but for others it would be depressing and they would then have to learn how to become somewhat more extroverted. I think you're reading too much into what he's saying.
      - bluefirebrand 5y ago
        > But maybe it should be This is just baffling to me. What are you even saying. Are you under the impression that being more social makes you less introverted? The way lifting weights makes your body stronger? It doesn't. It just makes you appear that way to ignorant people who still think being an introvert means you aren't very social. Being social is a skill you can practice. Being an introvert has nothing to do with that skill.
        5y ago
johnwheeler 5y ago
I think this idea of forced interaction with people we might not like is ridiculous and outmoded. I like interacting with family and friends. I do not like going to game nights or parties to meet new people. I don't like going to bars. I don't like being forced to interact with coworkers. So yeah, I recognize we're social animals and we have to interact to be healthy, but technology has made it such that it's now easier to be selective about who you interact with. That's a huge benefit. Why should I have to be forced to get along with some passive aggressive or outright aggressive asshole in the workplace more than necessary. I believe hanging out with such people who make you miserable causes premature death. I shouldn't have to change my attitude about such things if I'm happy with the friends and family I got and technology enables me.
- closeparen 4y ago
  This is basically “atomization” and it’s a hot topic: certainly it can be comfortable and convenient and even profoundly important to many individuals, esp. people whose authentic selves are not accepted in broader society. At the same time there is such a thing as social cohesion. Ultimately we do have to cooperate beyond our friend groups on projects like the economy, government, defense, etc. Or we will get eaten by a culture that does. Already people were concerned that the kind of peers we meet at work and school are too much like us, too much of a bubble… now we are talking about not meeting even those people. Already we have tribes that cannot agree on fundamental conceptions of reality depending on which cable channels they watch… how’s it going to work when there are millions of totally independent information environments? If we are going back to the many-independent-clans structure our ancestors had, we probably also going back to their material standard of living and their exposure to violence. For a while, until we get slaughtered by or assimilated into a culture that can get people who aren’t necessarily friends or family to have lunch together in between raiding our huts.
- dmatech 5y ago
  I wouldn't necessarily call it introversion. It borders on misanthropy. Collaboration and communication require sustained interaction with other people. Management requires even more than that. You can only get so much done by working on a Jira ticket in complete isolation. While it might work well enough for a mature group, it fails completely when bringing new people up to speed. I've worked with more than a few people like this. Perhaps they get all the social interaction they can handle at home and just want to be left alone at work. Or perhaps they just dislike their co-workers. Others find working in groups of more than two people to be difficult. I don't think it's strictly a personality trait. It's more of a cultural thing in some companies.