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Ah, now that is a point. I don't expect consumers to take on my personal union politics. That is the duty of the workforce and their union.. Which is more powe

Ah, now that is a point. I don't expect consumers to take on my personal union politics. That is the duty of the workforce and their union.. Which is more powerful if consumers don't steal money out of their pocket. Pay for cool things and you'll get more cool things.

samstave 4y ago
Make "cool things" overly priced, especially in a fucked up inflationary market manipulated by corruption and influence, where for the last several years everything costs more which is tangible and required to survive, (food, shelter, transport, employment) Then the ephemeral luxuries, such as entertainment, begin to take a more relaxed position on our moral compass when one compares paying for entertainment services, vs, using funds for food.
- Stunting 4y ago
  To you. The service I provide to society is entertainment. Perhaps in the dystopian sand planet of the future that won't hold much value but right now on Today's earth, entertainment is a service that is valued by society. In the future, I suspect we'll still have storytellers for the same reason we do today. To Inspire, educate, and entertain. I cannot envision society with zero entertainment.
- Kye 4y ago
  I went looking for a la carte options for all the Star Treks. They really want almost $50 per season for DS9, a show that premiered almost 30 years ago. There's just no reasonable way to justify that but greed. I can't believe people like Stunting actually see much of that ~$50, and I think they're here fighting over people not giving them their scraps when there's no guarantee people are making a choice between paying $50, paying $10 to Paramount, or downloading a copy ("pirating" IP is a made up concept no one uses outside the world of RIAA, MPAA, and similar).
  - sgtnoodle 4y ago
    I love 90's star trek. I haven't watched anything past Enterprise and the Chris Pine movies because I don't have a CBS account. I could easily afford it, but none of the new content seems worth it to me, in terms of my time let alone my money. I'm not a pirate, and yet I feel like Stunting is upset with folk like me.
    - Kye 4y ago
      Lower Decks is worth a month of it. I always wondered about the ships sent in after the Enterprise to deal with whatever they left. Now I know.
      - cwkoss 4y ago
        The Orville isn't officially Star Trek, but I'd argue is the best descendant of 90s Star Trek of the past decade.
        Kye 4y ago
        I have a very hard time taking Seth MacFarlane seriously as a non-voice actor. I keep hearing all the characters he voices, and that clashes with the attempts to play serious characters.
    - cwkoss 4y ago
      A significant proportion of 90s trek fans who have seen the new series would agree its not worth it. I pirate-streamed the first season of discovery due to its lack of availability on other platforms. Felt like a 10 hour movie about a dystopian future with weak shallow characters rather than an episodic serial about the great people solving problems in a better society than we have today. Tried a few episodes of Picard and just didn't get into it. Neither were entertaining enough for my full attention, ended up watching on second monitor while playing a game. I would feel like a schmuck if I paid CBS to subsidize this content: wasn't what I want more of in the world. There is no "voting with your dollar" in modern content delivery when you can't get a refund when a show ends up being a waste of time.
sgtnoodle 4y ago
How you worded that sounds reminiscent of mafia "protection". I assume that wasn't your intention, but that's how it read for me. It seems to me like piracy of shows is tangential to whatever the root of the issue is. Folk are becoming disenchanted with streaming services. Whether they pirate or just stop watching instead, the services have clearly changed in ways that make them less valuable to consumers. Unless somebody figures that out, it's not going to improve. I doubt DRM is the answer, although a combination of higher prices and consolidated content might be. Folk would pay more for Netflix if it was still a "monopoly" with all the popular shows. I think accusing folk of stealing money out of your pocket for downloading a video is quite hyperbolic and isn't winning you any arguments. You're trying to make it a moral issue, but it isn't really a moral issue, and nobody outside of the industry cares. You could claim that it's disrespectful to you as a participating member of society, and it probably is, but yelling at people to respect you more doesn't work, and has the opposite effect. I think your point, though, is that it's a tragedy of the commons situation. The industry works as a whole because people are willing to pay a premium in exchange for entertainment. If people don't pay, then there's no incentive to produce. If folk value new entertainment, they need to support the industry that produces it.
- Stunting 4y ago
  If thieves are offended at having their behavior identified as stealing, they could stop stealing. The problem, as I see it, is entertainment is being seen as a "good" and not a "service." Physical dvds and vhs has conditioned us to think that it's a physical good, so there is no harm in replicating the digital product. In fact that emotional state derived from viewing the entertainment is the service that is being paid for. Taking the value of receiving that entertainment without providing the cash value of that service is stealing.
cwkoss 4y ago
What if I pay for a movie ticket because I think it might be cool, then the movie is awful and I don't want more like it to be made? There is no option for refunds. Pirating first gives the user more control over which films they economically incentivize iteration on.

samstave 4y ago

Make "cool things" overly priced, especially in a fucked up inflationary market manipulated by corruption and influence, where for the last several years everything costs more which is tangible and required to survive, (food, shelter, transport, employment) Then the ephemeral luxuries, such as entertainment, begin to take a more relaxed position on our moral compass when one compares paying for entertainment services, vs, using funds for food.

Stunting 4y ago
To you. The service I provide to society is entertainment. Perhaps in the dystopian sand planet of the future that won't hold much value but right now on Today's earth, entertainment is a service that is valued by society. In the future, I suspect we'll still have storytellers for the same reason we do today. To Inspire, educate, and entertain. I cannot envision society with zero entertainment.
Kye 4y ago
I went looking for a la carte options for all the Star Treks. They really want almost $50 per season for DS9, a show that premiered almost 30 years ago. There's just no reasonable way to justify that but greed. I can't believe people like Stunting actually see much of that ~$50, and I think they're here fighting over people not giving them their scraps when there's no guarantee people are making a choice between paying $50, paying $10 to Paramount, or downloading a copy ("pirating" IP is a made up concept no one uses outside the world of RIAA, MPAA, and similar).
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  I love 90's star trek. I haven't watched anything past Enterprise and the Chris Pine movies because I don't have a CBS account. I could easily afford it, but none of the new content seems worth it to me, in terms of my time let alone my money. I'm not a pirate, and yet I feel like Stunting is upset with folk like me.
  - Kye 4y ago
    Lower Decks is worth a month of it. I always wondered about the ships sent in after the Enterprise to deal with whatever they left. Now I know.
    - cwkoss 4y ago
      The Orville isn't officially Star Trek, but I'd argue is the best descendant of 90s Star Trek of the past decade.
      - Kye 4y ago
        I have a very hard time taking Seth MacFarlane seriously as a non-voice actor. I keep hearing all the characters he voices, and that clashes with the attempts to play serious characters.
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    A significant proportion of 90s trek fans who have seen the new series would agree its not worth it. I pirate-streamed the first season of discovery due to its lack of availability on other platforms. Felt like a 10 hour movie about a dystopian future with weak shallow characters rather than an episodic serial about the great people solving problems in a better society than we have today. Tried a few episodes of Picard and just didn't get into it. Neither were entertaining enough for my full attention, ended up watching on second monitor while playing a game. I would feel like a schmuck if I paid CBS to subsidize this content: wasn't what I want more of in the world. There is no "voting with your dollar" in modern content delivery when you can't get a refund when a show ends up being a waste of time.

sgtnoodle 4y ago

How you worded that sounds reminiscent of mafia "protection". I assume that wasn't your intention, but that's how it read for me. It seems to me like piracy of shows is tangential to whatever the root of the issue is. Folk are becoming disenchanted with streaming services. Whether they pirate or just stop watching instead, the services have clearly changed in ways that make them less valuable to consumers. Unless somebody figures that out, it's not going to improve. I doubt DRM is the answer, although a combination of higher prices and consolidated content might be. Folk would pay more for Netflix if it was still a "monopoly" with all the popular shows. I think accusing folk of stealing money out of your pocket for downloading a video is quite hyperbolic and isn't winning you any arguments. You're trying to make it a moral issue, but it isn't really a moral issue, and nobody outside of the industry cares. You could claim that it's disrespectful to you as a participating member of society, and it probably is, but yelling at people to respect you more doesn't work, and has the opposite effect. I think your point, though, is that it's a tragedy of the commons situation. The industry works as a whole because people are willing to pay a premium in exchange for entertainment. If people don't pay, then there's no incentive to produce. If folk value new entertainment, they need to support the industry that produces it.

Stunting 4y ago
If thieves are offended at having their behavior identified as stealing, they could stop stealing. The problem, as I see it, is entertainment is being seen as a "good" and not a "service." Physical dvds and vhs has conditioned us to think that it's a physical good, so there is no harm in replicating the digital product. In fact that emotional state derived from viewing the entertainment is the service that is being paid for. Taking the value of receiving that entertainment without providing the cash value of that service is stealing.

cwkoss 4y ago

What if I pay for a movie ticket because I think it might be cool, then the movie is awful and I don't want more like it to be made? There is no option for refunds. Pirating first gives the user more control over which films they economically incentivize iteration on.