4 ms·

No. They have a fundamentally broken model. They're trying to sell a product that is being given away for free by their competitor who has the lion share of the

No. They have a fundamentally broken model. They're trying to sell a product that is being given away for free by their competitor who has the lion share of the market. Windows Mobile OS needs to be a step function better than its competitors to justify the premium, and it just simply isn't that good. We have to remember that smart phones these days are not only the user experience of the OS, but also the apps. I actually do think there is a way to salvage the Windows OS. And Microsoft is not going to like it. It is to build the OS on top of Android and leverage Android apps. Then offer a premium experience for enterprise and high-end consumers. But Microsoft would never admit defeat in this way, and because of that, they will fail.

woobar 15y ago
Actually, that's not entirely accurate. Competitor's 'free' OS comes with 'patent fees' to MS. So if you are a HW manufacturer choosing between Android and WP7 you will pay either way. [1] http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/05/27/htc-pays-5-per-android-license-to-microsoft/ http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/05/27/htc-pays-5-per-andro... [2] http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/09/samsung-takes-android-patent-license.html http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/09/samsung-takes-androi...
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  And the advantage of going with WP7 is that it keeps Apple and random patent trolls from coming after you since Microsoft indemnifies OEMs against software patents. Not to mention the estimated fees are only about $12 to $15 which weakens GPs argument that cost is a big factor. The OEMs and carriers do lose the freedom to develop a UI skin (which delays updates) and load always-running and uninstallable junkware though which might count for something against WP7.
- bad_user 15y ago
  Patents are only a short term advantage and they know it - Google doesn't have lots of patents but they have cash and, surprise, they have gone shopping already. Just wait until Google, Samsung, HTC, LG and maybe smaller players like Acer form a coalition and go after Microsoft - a company that is not a patent trol, that can be attacked and that will take a stock market hit in the case of failure. What really works for Microsoft at this point is just plain old FUD, but that doesn't lasts long.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    >Just wait until Google, Samsung, HTC, LG and maybe smaller players like Acer form a coalition and go after Microsoft Google has never filed an offensive patent suit. Also, MS can retaliate against almost every Google product out there. Samsung, HTC are MS patent licensees and make Windows Phones. In fact, HTC came into the world phone market by making WM phones. LG makes Windows Phones. Acer's biggest business is being a Windows OEM. Why would they waste tens of millions of dollars trying to shake down MS? If you think these are going to come together and file a patent lawsuit against the biggest patenter, I suspect you're wrong. >..will take a stock market hit in the case of failure The dent in MS's revenues even in the case of successful patent suits against it, compared to the cash brought in by their cashcows will be a blip on the radar.
rjd 15y ago
Well I guess we have to see if Android is still a viable platform in 2-3 years time. Don't under estimate the power of patents. Also don't under estimate the power of the enterprise and company issued phones.
- diminish 15y ago
  microsoft is weaker in mobile patents than any other platform player. they could be a victime quicker than android.
  - rjd 15y ago
    You are aware Android is an operating system right (the same domain where Microsoft holds most of its patents) and not hardware (where Microsft holds the rest of there patents)?
    - diminish 15y ago
      And you are aware that if windows phones ever pick up, the os and office patents aren't enough for ms to defend their ecosystem. Right?
  - danthony 15y ago
    Tell that to Samsung and HTC. Microsoft's patent position was strong enough that it managed to force each of them to pay Microsoft a license fee for every Android device they sell. Fact is Android is anything but free, except it's Microsoft, not Google, who's collecting on every incremental Android sale.
ChrisLTD 15y ago
I know you're looking at this from the handset maker's point of view but I think it's equally applicable to the consumer. Exactly why should I chose a Windows Phone over an iPhone or Android phone? At this point, you can get Android phones and iPhones for free with a subsidy, so they can't compete on cost. Windows Phone may be nice, hell it may be better than Android, but there is no "OMG that is so cool I have to have it" feature. Until Microsoft can find a way be not only better but different, they won't regain marketshare.
InclinedPlane 15y ago
It would seem like some sort of cosmic justice if MS failed to make a perhaps fundamentally superior product* successful due to the inability to fight against the network effect of competing platforms. * Not that I'm saying it is.

woobar 15y ago

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. Competitor's 'free' OS comes with 'patent fees' to MS. So if you are a HW manufacturer choosing between Android and WP7 you will pay either way. [1] http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/05/27/htc-pays-5-per-android-license-to-microsoft/ http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/05/27/htc-pays-5-per-andro... [2] http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/09/samsung-takes-android-patent-license.html http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/09/samsung-takes-androi...

recoiledsnake 15y ago
And the advantage of going with WP7 is that it keeps Apple and random patent trolls from coming after you since Microsoft indemnifies OEMs against software patents. Not to mention the estimated fees are only about $12 to $15 which weakens GPs argument that cost is a big factor. The OEMs and carriers do lose the freedom to develop a UI skin (which delays updates) and load always-running and uninstallable junkware though which might count for something against WP7.
bad_user 15y ago
Patents are only a short term advantage and they know it - Google doesn't have lots of patents but they have cash and, surprise, they have gone shopping already. Just wait until Google, Samsung, HTC, LG and maybe smaller players like Acer form a coalition and go after Microsoft - a company that is not a patent trol, that can be attacked and that will take a stock market hit in the case of failure. What really works for Microsoft at this point is just plain old FUD, but that doesn't lasts long.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  >Just wait until Google, Samsung, HTC, LG and maybe smaller players like Acer form a coalition and go after Microsoft Google has never filed an offensive patent suit. Also, MS can retaliate against almost every Google product out there. Samsung, HTC are MS patent licensees and make Windows Phones. In fact, HTC came into the world phone market by making WM phones. LG makes Windows Phones. Acer's biggest business is being a Windows OEM. Why would they waste tens of millions of dollars trying to shake down MS? If you think these are going to come together and file a patent lawsuit against the biggest patenter, I suspect you're wrong. >..will take a stock market hit in the case of failure The dent in MS's revenues even in the case of successful patent suits against it, compared to the cash brought in by their cashcows will be a blip on the radar.

rjd 15y ago

Well I guess we have to see if Android is still a viable platform in 2-3 years time. Don't under estimate the power of patents. Also don't under estimate the power of the enterprise and company issued phones.

diminish 15y ago
microsoft is weaker in mobile patents than any other platform player. they could be a victime quicker than android.
- rjd 15y ago
  You are aware Android is an operating system right (the same domain where Microsoft holds most of its patents) and not hardware (where Microsft holds the rest of there patents)?
  - diminish 15y ago
    And you are aware that if windows phones ever pick up, the os and office patents aren't enough for ms to defend their ecosystem. Right?
- danthony 15y ago
  Tell that to Samsung and HTC. Microsoft's patent position was strong enough that it managed to force each of them to pay Microsoft a license fee for every Android device they sell. Fact is Android is anything but free, except it's Microsoft, not Google, who's collecting on every incremental Android sale.

ChrisLTD 15y ago

I know you're looking at this from the handset maker's point of view but I think it's equally applicable to the consumer. Exactly why should I chose a Windows Phone over an iPhone or Android phone? At this point, you can get Android phones and iPhones for free with a subsidy, so they can't compete on cost. Windows Phone may be nice, hell it may be better than Android, but there is no "OMG that is so cool I have to have it" feature. Until Microsoft can find a way be not only better but different, they won't regain marketshare.

InclinedPlane 15y ago

It would seem like some sort of cosmic justice if MS failed to make a perhaps fundamentally superior product* successful due to the inability to fight against the network effect of competing platforms. * Not that I'm saying it is.