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I think a big missing piece for the whole thing is the Just Works factor. You're either stuck with cloud garbage (some of which does, kinda, Just Work, until it

I think a big missing piece for the whole thing is the Just Works factor. You're either stuck with cloud garbage (some of which does, kinda, Just Work, until it doesn't), or a bunch of DIY. Meanwhile, with traditional dumb fixtures, switches, outlets, et c., I don't even pay attention to which brand I'm buying. They all work the same, and you hook them all up the same way, then forget about them until/unless they physically break.

greedo 4y ago
I've found the Lutron Caseta line perfect so far. I won't buy anything that requires external servers etc (like Nest). But Lutron only makes a limited range of devices.
- eldaisfish 4y ago
  Seconded. Lutron's devices connected via apple's homekit work well for us. No problems so far, the setup is pretty much set-and-forget and apple handles the security. You can disable access to the internet for lutron's bridge so no data leaves our home network. Pretty good solution.
- tristanperry 4y ago
  Agreed, Caseta are worth their price premium IMO. The only downside is that they aren't available in the UK, but that's not uncommon for non-mainstream smart home products.
  - toast0 4y ago
    I'm sure you could find someone to reship product to you... And then you'd just need a stepdown transformer in your wall, and to import US spec everything else to go with it. Totally simple ;)
- sbradford26 4y ago
  I think the best part about Lutron Caseta is that it still solves my problems without the internet connected hub. The internet connection only adds additional features, and nothing else breaks if that goes down. Ex. I used a lutron caseta smart switch with and a pico remote to add three way switching for my kitchen and dining room. Where they used to only have one inconveniently located switch.
cptskippy 4y ago
> I don't even pay attention to which brand I'm buying. My mil has purchased some seriously sketchy outlets off Amazon to install because she wanted to modern style but didn't want to pay the Leviton/Legrand premium from the home center duopoly. If you're purchasing in-wall electrical, I strongly encourage you to buy a name brand from a reputable source. Also spend the extra half dollar for nylon plates that won't crack or shatter.
- brimble 4y ago
  Hahaha, I guess I've avoided that because I rarely purchase anything that involves electricity from Amazon. I don't trust them not to burn down my house.
Nextgrid 4y ago
Why is DIY considered bad? I mean, aren't existing "dumb" electricals also DIY in the sense that you have to install it, wire it in, etc? I have a "DIY" setup in my current property with Shelly modules behind light switches and everything connected to Home Assistant. It's been rock-solid for a year now and the occasional maintenance I do (updates, etc) is more out of a hobby than anything (I could air-gap the entire system onto a separate network with no internet access and forget all the security updates). Yes, it took some skill to install and configure, but that's no different from installing all the electrics (or plumbing or heating) in the first place. A "dumb" home needs maintenance as well. Maybe people just have an unrealistic expectation from smart devices?
- jeremyjh 4y ago
  It isn’t bad for people who like to do that but the scarcity of those people and their preferences for open solutions means it’s tough to make a lot of money there.
- brimble 4y ago
  There's a big difference between wiring up a new outlet that'll likely last for decades without further effort and will very likely require an identical or near-identical process to replace even 30 years from now, and care and feeding of fully-local "smart home" networks & interfaces. Most plumbing or electrical work I do will last decades. If I move, the same skills will transfer perfectly to the plumbing and wiring already installed in the new house. The last big innovation in any of that was PEX piping, which takes about five minutes to get completely competent with, and has been around for years already. People who can come out and fix any of that, if I don't feel like dealing with it, can be found anywhere and often work pretty damn cheap (unless you're getting ripped off). Almost all the maintenance is "buy part, replace part", which is fine because (in the scheme of things) most of the parts are very cheap. Add "smart" devices to any of that, and they're instantly the most finicky and needy part of the whole system.
  - jvolkman 4y ago
    But any decent smart switch works as a normal switch by default, without any care or feeding. Sure, controlling them remotely and adding them to automation takes additional work, but that's stuff that is just impossible with the dumb switches, and not a requirement to control the light fixtures.
markvdb 4y ago
For a new build or serious renovation with complete rewiring, this is mostly a solved problem. The Shelly pro 4pm installs in the electric wiring cabinet. It speaks MQTT standard messaging across wired ethernet, but it can also integrate with Shelly's cloud thingies. It's a smart, standards based drop in replacement for ordinary "dumb" AC teleruptor/impulse relay star topology wiring.

greedo 4y ago

I've found the Lutron Caseta line perfect so far. I won't buy anything that requires external servers etc (like Nest). But Lutron only makes a limited range of devices.

eldaisfish 4y ago
Seconded. Lutron's devices connected via apple's homekit work well for us. No problems so far, the setup is pretty much set-and-forget and apple handles the security. You can disable access to the internet for lutron's bridge so no data leaves our home network. Pretty good solution.
tristanperry 4y ago
Agreed, Caseta are worth their price premium IMO. The only downside is that they aren't available in the UK, but that's not uncommon for non-mainstream smart home products.
- toast0 4y ago
  I'm sure you could find someone to reship product to you... And then you'd just need a stepdown transformer in your wall, and to import US spec everything else to go with it. Totally simple ;)
sbradford26 4y ago
I think the best part about Lutron Caseta is that it still solves my problems without the internet connected hub. The internet connection only adds additional features, and nothing else breaks if that goes down. Ex. I used a lutron caseta smart switch with and a pico remote to add three way switching for my kitchen and dining room. Where they used to only have one inconveniently located switch.

cptskippy 4y ago

> I don't even pay attention to which brand I'm buying. My mil has purchased some seriously sketchy outlets off Amazon to install because she wanted to modern style but didn't want to pay the Leviton/Legrand premium from the home center duopoly. If you're purchasing in-wall electrical, I strongly encourage you to buy a name brand from a reputable source. Also spend the extra half dollar for nylon plates that won't crack or shatter.

brimble 4y ago
Hahaha, I guess I've avoided that because I rarely purchase anything that involves electricity from Amazon. I don't trust them not to burn down my house.

Nextgrid 4y ago

Why is DIY considered bad? I mean, aren't existing "dumb" electricals also DIY in the sense that you have to install it, wire it in, etc? I have a "DIY" setup in my current property with Shelly modules behind light switches and everything connected to Home Assistant. It's been rock-solid for a year now and the occasional maintenance I do (updates, etc) is more out of a hobby than anything (I could air-gap the entire system onto a separate network with no internet access and forget all the security updates). Yes, it took some skill to install and configure, but that's no different from installing all the electrics (or plumbing or heating) in the first place. A "dumb" home needs maintenance as well. Maybe people just have an unrealistic expectation from smart devices?

jeremyjh 4y ago
It isn’t bad for people who like to do that but the scarcity of those people and their preferences for open solutions means it’s tough to make a lot of money there.
brimble 4y ago
There's a big difference between wiring up a new outlet that'll likely last for decades without further effort and will very likely require an identical or near-identical process to replace even 30 years from now, and care and feeding of fully-local "smart home" networks & interfaces. Most plumbing or electrical work I do will last decades. If I move, the same skills will transfer perfectly to the plumbing and wiring already installed in the new house. The last big innovation in any of that was PEX piping, which takes about five minutes to get completely competent with, and has been around for years already. People who can come out and fix any of that, if I don't feel like dealing with it, can be found anywhere and often work pretty damn cheap (unless you're getting ripped off). Almost all the maintenance is "buy part, replace part", which is fine because (in the scheme of things) most of the parts are very cheap. Add "smart" devices to any of that, and they're instantly the most finicky and needy part of the whole system.
- jvolkman 4y ago
  But any decent smart switch works as a normal switch by default, without any care or feeding. Sure, controlling them remotely and adding them to automation takes additional work, but that's stuff that is just impossible with the dumb switches, and not a requirement to control the light fixtures.

markvdb 4y ago

For a new build or serious renovation with complete rewiring, this is mostly a solved problem. The Shelly pro 4pm installs in the electric wiring cabinet. It speaks MQTT standard messaging across wired ethernet, but it can also integrate with Shelly's cloud thingies. It's a smart, standards based drop in replacement for ordinary "dumb" AC teleruptor/impulse relay star topology wiring.