3 ms·

As many already said, 99% is just a modern IDE with a one-click-install plugin. Also, I don't know the grip with productivity tools.

nine_zeros 4y ago
But a language relying so heavily on IDE means that the language is severely lacking. People not using said "modern" IDEs are just stuck out of using the language. Is this progress? Even with modern IDEs, there is a difference between what different IDEs do. So now the language is stuck with different IDEs doing different things. Is the progress? It also means that anyone developing a future IDE can no longer support these languages without support. Is this progress? God forbid someone tries python on a new architecture where new the entire complex toolchain is not going to be available. They just can't use this language. Is this progress?
- kortex 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure the IDE uses either mypy or pyrite under the hood. I don't know how this is a sign of python lacking. Works just fine in jupyter notebooks, too, and that is hardly an "IDE" (though it does have Jedi autocomplete).
  - nine_zeros 4y ago
    > I don't know how this is a sign of python lacking If a language cannot be written or used effectively by devs without IDE, it is an incomplete language. This has happened in the past is Java. Within a few years, Python will bloat up like Java and everyone will move on to greener pastures.
bspammer 4y ago
I think the difference is largely a culture problem. Most python devs think of typing as a “nice to have” extra, whereas someone using a typed-at-compile-time language see it as an essential feature of good code. You can see the results of this in the fact that a lot of popular 3rd party python libraries still don’t have type hints. Even with typing, how often do you see Any in python vs Object in Java?
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  > I think the difference is largely a culture problem. Most python devs think of typing as a “nice to have” extra, whereas someone using a typed-at-compile-time language see it as an essential feature of good code I love statically typed languages. I also love python. But pythons "type annotation" system is garbage. It is neither here, nor there and developers spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out types. While other languages typing is a productivity booster, pythons type annotation absolutely isn't, especially with complex types.

nine_zeros 4y ago

But a language relying so heavily on IDE means that the language is severely lacking. People not using said "modern" IDEs are just stuck out of using the language. Is this progress? Even with modern IDEs, there is a difference between what different IDEs do. So now the language is stuck with different IDEs doing different things. Is the progress? It also means that anyone developing a future IDE can no longer support these languages without support. Is this progress? God forbid someone tries python on a new architecture where new the entire complex toolchain is not going to be available. They just can't use this language. Is this progress?

kortex 4y ago
I'm pretty sure the IDE uses either mypy or pyrite under the hood. I don't know how this is a sign of python lacking. Works just fine in jupyter notebooks, too, and that is hardly an "IDE" (though it does have Jedi autocomplete).
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  > I don't know how this is a sign of python lacking If a language cannot be written or used effectively by devs without IDE, it is an incomplete language. This has happened in the past is Java. Within a few years, Python will bloat up like Java and everyone will move on to greener pastures.

bspammer 4y ago

I think the difference is largely a culture problem. Most python devs think of typing as a “nice to have” extra, whereas someone using a typed-at-compile-time language see it as an essential feature of good code. You can see the results of this in the fact that a lot of popular 3rd party python libraries still don’t have type hints. Even with typing, how often do you see Any in python vs Object in Java?

nine_zeros 4y ago
> I think the difference is largely a culture problem. Most python devs think of typing as a “nice to have” extra, whereas someone using a typed-at-compile-time language see it as an essential feature of good code I love statically typed languages. I also love python. But pythons "type annotation" system is garbage. It is neither here, nor there and developers spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out types. While other languages typing is a productivity booster, pythons type annotation absolutely isn't, especially with complex types.