22 ms·

If you're reading this and at the whim of a coffee request, get a new job. Managers really do need to communicate with the team and the team really does need t

by jayd16 5y ago

If you're reading this and at the whim of a coffee request, get a new job. Managers really do need to communicate with the team and the team really does need to communicate with each other. That really does happen better in person. Even if it feels like a distraction when someone needs to communicate with you but you don't with them.

johnwheeler 5y ago
> That really does happen better in person Says who? Some management study? My anecdotal experience tells me I’ve formed stronger relationships over zoom and slack than I have working in person with people I truly cannot stand. At least with zoom and slack, if I don’t like you, I can hide your window behind my IDE. And there’s no rule that says I have to like everyone and everyone has to like me. There’s no rule that says I should want to spend my free time with so and so. How about, I choose who I spend my time with and you choose what I work on and pay me for that?
- nicoburns 5y ago
  > My anecdotal experience tells me I’ve formed stronger relationships over zoom and slack than I have working in person with people I truly cannot stand. I mean if you can't stand the people then you're going to have poor relationships with them regardless.
  - johnwheeler 5y ago
    Right, so might as well stay home and hide their window behind my IDE I once worked with a dude that would come into my cubicle every morning eating chunks of watermelon out of a sandwich baggie. He would just stand there smacking his lips and slurping up watermelon juice, purposefully trying to be a dick. I shouldn’t have to deal with that or be expected to get a new job. And management shouldn’t have to sift through that passive aggressive behavior and make arbitrary judgement calls of who the dick is. Just let me spend the least amount of time as possible with him, and I’ll be happy. Respect my freedom to choose who I want to associate with.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Petty life pro tip: find out what jerks dislike and do it very discreetly. Confronting bullies is a game of chicken and most bullies can't really take it. You just have to hold the line or make them think you will.
      - johnwheeler 5y ago
        Better pro tip: Outright avoid assholes if possible. I don't want to play such mind games.
    - bobsomers 5y ago
      > I shouldn’t have to deal with that or be expected to get a new job. Did you try asking him to stop, or to eat somewhere else?
      - johnwheeler 5y ago
        You’re gaslighting.
  - scarecrowbob 5y ago
    Not necessarily; if the elements of a person we find objectionable are things that only exist in person then different modes of communication may mitigate those. For instance, if someone doesn't like me because I interrupt conversations with irrelevant anecdotes in a way that derails the topic and being on a zoom call makes it much more effort to take over the conversation, then that might actually improve our working relationship.
- splitstud 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jonathankoren 5y ago
> That really does happen better in person. Prior to 2020 this was certainly the conventional conjecture, but the world has had two years of full remote. That’s a natural experiment, and the results are in. Companies didn’t collapse. Therefore, that’s not true. Even in The Before Times, I lead a team that was effectively 100% distributed across North America, with only about half us capable of physically meeting once or twice a week. There as no difference. Slack the person, or hop on a call. Personally, I think the real reason that’s driving return to work is big companies wasting literally billions of dollars on real estate. Better stick folks in those boxes, or the execs made a huge mistake, and of course execs didn’t make a mistake, because the execs are geniuses to revival the demigods.
- jdlshore 5y ago
  > Therefore, that’s not true. Your argument doesn’t follow. GP claimed that in-person is better, not that it prevents companies from collapsing.
  - jonathankoren 5y ago
    Quiet pedant.
    - jdlshore 5y ago
      That’s not the way we do things here. Please engage with the argument being made rather than making insults.
      - jonathankoren 5y ago
        Look, if you’re going to make pedantic comments, instead of engaging with the argument, you’re not acting in good faith, and there’s no reason why anyone should treat your comment like it is.
- erik_seaberg 5y ago
  A well-controlled experiment in remote work would have provisioned quiet, furnished home offices. Whatever we learn from the last two years, we need to keep in mind that it started off with surprise school closures and webcam shortages. I was lucky work let me take home a fancy monitor and chair.

by jayd16 5y ago

johnwheeler 5y ago

> That really does happen better in person Says who? Some management study? My anecdotal experience tells me I’ve formed stronger relationships over zoom and slack than I have working in person with people I truly cannot stand. At least with zoom and slack, if I don’t like you, I can hide your window behind my IDE. And there’s no rule that says I have to like everyone and everyone has to like me. There’s no rule that says I should want to spend my free time with so and so. How about, I choose who I spend my time with and you choose what I work on and pay me for that?

nicoburns 5y ago
> My anecdotal experience tells me I’ve formed stronger relationships over zoom and slack than I have working in person with people I truly cannot stand. I mean if you can't stand the people then you're going to have poor relationships with them regardless.
- johnwheeler 5y ago
  Right, so might as well stay home and hide their window behind my IDE I once worked with a dude that would come into my cubicle every morning eating chunks of watermelon out of a sandwich baggie. He would just stand there smacking his lips and slurping up watermelon juice, purposefully trying to be a dick. I shouldn’t have to deal with that or be expected to get a new job. And management shouldn’t have to sift through that passive aggressive behavior and make arbitrary judgement calls of who the dick is. Just let me spend the least amount of time as possible with him, and I’ll be happy. Respect my freedom to choose who I want to associate with.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Petty life pro tip: find out what jerks dislike and do it very discreetly. Confronting bullies is a game of chicken and most bullies can't really take it. You just have to hold the line or make them think you will.
    - johnwheeler 5y ago
      Better pro tip: Outright avoid assholes if possible. I don't want to play such mind games.
  - bobsomers 5y ago
    > I shouldn’t have to deal with that or be expected to get a new job. Did you try asking him to stop, or to eat somewhere else?
    - johnwheeler 5y ago
      You’re gaslighting.
- scarecrowbob 5y ago
  Not necessarily; if the elements of a person we find objectionable are things that only exist in person then different modes of communication may mitigate those. For instance, if someone doesn't like me because I interrupt conversations with irrelevant anecdotes in a way that derails the topic and being on a zoom call makes it much more effort to take over the conversation, then that might actually improve our working relationship.
splitstud 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jonathankoren 5y ago

> That really does happen better in person. Prior to 2020 this was certainly the conventional conjecture, but the world has had two years of full remote. That’s a natural experiment, and the results are in. Companies didn’t collapse. Therefore, that’s not true. Even in The Before Times, I lead a team that was effectively 100% distributed across North America, with only about half us capable of physically meeting once or twice a week. There as no difference. Slack the person, or hop on a call. Personally, I think the real reason that’s driving return to work is big companies wasting literally billions of dollars on real estate. Better stick folks in those boxes, or the execs made a huge mistake, and of course execs didn’t make a mistake, because the execs are geniuses to revival the demigods.

jdlshore 5y ago
> Therefore, that’s not true. Your argument doesn’t follow. GP claimed that in-person is better, not that it prevents companies from collapsing.
- jonathankoren 5y ago
  Quiet pedant.
  - jdlshore 5y ago
    That’s not the way we do things here. Please engage with the argument being made rather than making insults.
    - jonathankoren 5y ago
      Look, if you’re going to make pedantic comments, instead of engaging with the argument, you’re not acting in good faith, and there’s no reason why anyone should treat your comment like it is.
erik_seaberg 5y ago
A well-controlled experiment in remote work would have provisioned quiet, furnished home offices. Whatever we learn from the last two years, we need to keep in mind that it started off with surprise school closures and webcam shortages. I was lucky work let me take home a fancy monitor and chair.