4 ms·

More like I snuck onto a ride without buying a ticket. Or snuck into a theater without buying a ticket. Wouldn't you call that stealing? Edit: Call it digita

More like I snuck onto a ride without buying a ticket. Or snuck into a theater without buying a ticket. Wouldn't you call that stealing? Edit: Call it digital trespass then. I don't really care what you call it. There are obviously fixed costs to creating content. Just because there aren't incremental costs incurred from piracy, doesn't mean there isn't harm. Lost revenue is harm.

vincnetas 4y ago
Yes, it's not stealing.
dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
Legally that wouldn't be theft.
newman8r 4y ago
In those cases, your mere presence costs the operator more (fuel cost/ wear and tear/limited number of seats) - so sure, those cases could be considered stealing, but I don't think they're in the same realm as downloading entertainment.
- tzs 4y ago
  I have some used oil I need to get rid of. I could drive the 45 mile round trip to the county hazardous waste disposal site and get rid of it properly. Or I could wait until we get a good rain and pour it into the drainage ditch in front of my house, where it will eventually end up somewhere in Puget Sound. The amount of oil is small enough that it would have absolutely no measurable effect whatsoever on Puget Sound. Would you say that it is therefore OK for me to dump it in the ditch?
  - orhmeh09 4y ago
    If the environmental impact assessment (you should already have conducted this) shows the impact of dumping your 1 ml - 1,000 l is less than the impact of your driving 45 miles, go for it!
  - newman8r 4y ago
    > Would you say that it is therefore OK for me to dump it in the ditch? I'd say no - because it's decreasing the intrinsic value of a shared resource (whether or not it can be measured). Downloading a movie, on the other hand - doesn't decrease the intrinsic value of the media being copied.
fuckcensorship 4y ago
I don’t think these are fair comparisons. A ride requires a vehicle, a driver, fuel, etc. You can’t freely copy a vehicle, a person’s time, or the fuel required to power the vehicle. A theater requires electricity, seating, space for seating, an audio and video system, etc. These are also things that you can’t freely copy.
- dlp211 4y ago
  You are stealing the residuals of the actors, producers, stuntmen, grips, and all the other folks that help make content. Not everyone is a A-List celeb or director.
  - fuckcensorship 4y ago
    This logic is still flawed. If I stole a ride on a train, am I stealing from the people who made the train?
    - dlp211 4y ago
      This doesn't make any sense and is an incorrect analogy. Trains don't pay residuals to the people that made the train every time someone rides it. Imagine a different world where the people who made trains make most of their money from train rider residuals. In that case, I would say yes, they are stealing.
Stunting 4y ago
and then the carnival workers get fired, because there isn't enough income to pay 3 people. One person has to take tickets and run the rides, which is now more dangerous for you. So they shut it down, and all the cool rides leave town and you'll tell your kids how much cooler carnivals use to be and you'll never understand it's cause you stole income out of the workers pockets.
ThrowawayR2 4y ago
> "Call it digital trespass then." The legal term you're looking for is probably "theft of services", e.g. https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-of-services/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-of-services/). And, to the people trying to play semantic games with "steal" and "theft", theft of services does have laws defining it as a criminal offense, e.g. https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_164.125 https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_164.125 .

vincnetas 4y ago

Yes, it's not stealing.

dj_mc_merlin 4y ago

Legally that wouldn't be theft.

newman8r 4y ago

In those cases, your mere presence costs the operator more (fuel cost/ wear and tear/limited number of seats) - so sure, those cases could be considered stealing, but I don't think they're in the same realm as downloading entertainment.

tzs 4y ago
I have some used oil I need to get rid of. I could drive the 45 mile round trip to the county hazardous waste disposal site and get rid of it properly. Or I could wait until we get a good rain and pour it into the drainage ditch in front of my house, where it will eventually end up somewhere in Puget Sound. The amount of oil is small enough that it would have absolutely no measurable effect whatsoever on Puget Sound. Would you say that it is therefore OK for me to dump it in the ditch?
- orhmeh09 4y ago
  If the environmental impact assessment (you should already have conducted this) shows the impact of dumping your 1 ml - 1,000 l is less than the impact of your driving 45 miles, go for it!
- newman8r 4y ago
  > Would you say that it is therefore OK for me to dump it in the ditch? I'd say no - because it's decreasing the intrinsic value of a shared resource (whether or not it can be measured). Downloading a movie, on the other hand - doesn't decrease the intrinsic value of the media being copied.

fuckcensorship 4y ago

I don’t think these are fair comparisons. A ride requires a vehicle, a driver, fuel, etc. You can’t freely copy a vehicle, a person’s time, or the fuel required to power the vehicle. A theater requires electricity, seating, space for seating, an audio and video system, etc. These are also things that you can’t freely copy.

dlp211 4y ago
You are stealing the residuals of the actors, producers, stuntmen, grips, and all the other folks that help make content. Not everyone is a A-List celeb or director.
- fuckcensorship 4y ago
  This logic is still flawed. If I stole a ride on a train, am I stealing from the people who made the train?
  - dlp211 4y ago
    This doesn't make any sense and is an incorrect analogy. Trains don't pay residuals to the people that made the train every time someone rides it. Imagine a different world where the people who made trains make most of their money from train rider residuals. In that case, I would say yes, they are stealing.

Stunting 4y ago

and then the carnival workers get fired, because there isn't enough income to pay 3 people. One person has to take tickets and run the rides, which is now more dangerous for you. So they shut it down, and all the cool rides leave town and you'll tell your kids how much cooler carnivals use to be and you'll never understand it's cause you stole income out of the workers pockets.

ThrowawayR2 4y ago

> "Call it digital trespass then." The legal term you're looking for is probably "theft of services", e.g. https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-of-services/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-of-services/). And, to the people trying to play semantic games with "steal" and "theft", theft of services does have laws defining it as a criminal offense, e.g. https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_164.125 https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_164.125 .