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I strongly disagree with this kind of techno-pessimism. Social media is a grind if you treat it as a grind. Your friend count is a high score only if you treat

I strongly disagree with this kind of techno-pessimism. Social media is a grind if you treat it as a grind. Your friend count is a high score only if you treat it as a high score. Your reddit karma is only important if you treat it as important. You all act like you're being forced to use social media, or use it in a particular way, you're not. You act like its some sinister outside force that makes you obsessed with status, it isn't. It's just you. It's fun and oh-so-fashionable to blame corporations and Mark Zuckerburg for your emptiness, but it comes at a terrible cost to your ability to grow and change and understand the world around you.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
This is an increasingly difficult concept to escape when you’re in certain career positions. Are you sure that this doesn’t matter if you’re a new, unestablished cultural commentator, fashion designer, model, journalist, politician, union organizer, musician, artist, or marketer? (Please note how I said new, unestablished. People who already have platforms and influence before obviously don’t need what social media offers.)
- wallfacer120 4y ago
  How has social media made this worse?
cardanome 4y ago
The problem is that social media is not optional for many professions. A book author is absolutely expected to have social media and it can be quite critical towards whether they succeed or not. In fact for any kind of artist is. Even as a software engineer, yeah you can do without it currently because of how good the job market is but playing the social media game right can offer a huge career boost (or malus if you are not careful). So not engaging with social media or not engaging strategically leaves you at a clear disadvantage. Humans have a strong desire to be accepted by the group because that is critical for survival. And these days, being good at social media, having many followers, is a huge survival advantage. It directly translates into opportunities to make money, towards job offers, towards networking ability, towards finding a new apartment, being able to do a GoFundMe if you have been ruined by medical bills and so on. So no, people are no doing it to themselves. They have to play the game.
- wallfacer120 4y ago
  "Even as a software engineer, yeah you can do without it currently because of how good the job market is but playing the social media game right can offer a huge career boost" I do not believe that something offering a potential upside means you are forced to use it - eating less carbs offers many potential upsides but that doesn't mean that people do it.
  - cardanome 4y ago
    As the job market happens to be competitive and assuming you are rational player that wants the best possible outcome for yourself, yes you are forced indeed to do so. An alternative solution to the game would of course be but that we, as a profession, collectively decide (at least a big enough subset of us) to not use social media for career gain and socially punish those of us that do. You as an individual can fight for that solution but whether it happens or even is realistic is not in your circle of power. Again, I am arguing under the assumption that people want the best possible outcome for themselves and are forced to act based on that. If you want to argue against it based you on a different philosophical worldview (I guess what most of the world calls liberal or as they call it the US "libertarian"), yeah we can have a ideological argument. Just make it explicit whatever definition you use and how you think it helps understanding the matter. As for carbs, I don't think that is a very good counter-example. Eating less carbs carries some significant social cost (being seen as a picky eater, reduced option when eating socially). Not to mention it simply costs more energy to eat consciously less carbs. Sure it might be worth it for some people but the benefits are not that clear and most people are ignorant of proper nutrition to begin with.
    - wallfacer120 4y ago
      " I am arguing under the assumption that people want the best possible outcome for themselves and are forced to act based on that" Well, if you are arguing under the assumption that your argument is correct then I guess I can't argue with you.
walleeee 4y ago
Believe it or not it's possible to take a proactive stance with respect to social technology and simultaneously recognize it can powerfully shape thought and action
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Banana699 4y ago
This is a bit like saying "Money is only as important as you make it". They are all inter-subjective games, you can treat it as unimportant until somebody you treat as important treats it as important, and then it's game over (hehe). To quote a meme, "We live in a society". This is at once an ironic shitpost and one of the most tragic facts about the human condition.
- wallfacer120 4y ago
  If you are forced to treat your social media metrics as the center of your life because your friends say that you have to, then I submit that the issue is your choice of friends.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago

This is an increasingly difficult concept to escape when you’re in certain career positions. Are you sure that this doesn’t matter if you’re a new, unestablished cultural commentator, fashion designer, model, journalist, politician, union organizer, musician, artist, or marketer? (Please note how I said new, unestablished. People who already have platforms and influence before obviously don’t need what social media offers.)

wallfacer120 4y ago
How has social media made this worse?

cardanome 4y ago

The problem is that social media is not optional for many professions. A book author is absolutely expected to have social media and it can be quite critical towards whether they succeed or not. In fact for any kind of artist is. Even as a software engineer, yeah you can do without it currently because of how good the job market is but playing the social media game right can offer a huge career boost (or malus if you are not careful). So not engaging with social media or not engaging strategically leaves you at a clear disadvantage. Humans have a strong desire to be accepted by the group because that is critical for survival. And these days, being good at social media, having many followers, is a huge survival advantage. It directly translates into opportunities to make money, towards job offers, towards networking ability, towards finding a new apartment, being able to do a GoFundMe if you have been ruined by medical bills and so on. So no, people are no doing it to themselves. They have to play the game.

wallfacer120 4y ago
"Even as a software engineer, yeah you can do without it currently because of how good the job market is but playing the social media game right can offer a huge career boost" I do not believe that something offering a potential upside means you are forced to use it - eating less carbs offers many potential upsides but that doesn't mean that people do it.
- cardanome 4y ago
  As the job market happens to be competitive and assuming you are rational player that wants the best possible outcome for yourself, yes you are forced indeed to do so. An alternative solution to the game would of course be but that we, as a profession, collectively decide (at least a big enough subset of us) to not use social media for career gain and socially punish those of us that do. You as an individual can fight for that solution but whether it happens or even is realistic is not in your circle of power. Again, I am arguing under the assumption that people want the best possible outcome for themselves and are forced to act based on that. If you want to argue against it based you on a different philosophical worldview (I guess what most of the world calls liberal or as they call it the US "libertarian"), yeah we can have a ideological argument. Just make it explicit whatever definition you use and how you think it helps understanding the matter. As for carbs, I don't think that is a very good counter-example. Eating less carbs carries some significant social cost (being seen as a picky eater, reduced option when eating socially). Not to mention it simply costs more energy to eat consciously less carbs. Sure it might be worth it for some people but the benefits are not that clear and most people are ignorant of proper nutrition to begin with.
  - wallfacer120 4y ago
    " I am arguing under the assumption that people want the best possible outcome for themselves and are forced to act based on that" Well, if you are arguing under the assumption that your argument is correct then I guess I can't argue with you.

walleeee 4y ago

Believe it or not it's possible to take a proactive stance with respect to social technology and simultaneously recognize it can powerfully shape thought and action

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Banana699 4y ago

This is a bit like saying "Money is only as important as you make it". They are all inter-subjective games, you can treat it as unimportant until somebody you treat as important treats it as important, and then it's game over (hehe). To quote a meme, "We live in a society". This is at once an ironic shitpost and one of the most tragic facts about the human condition.

wallfacer120 4y ago
If you are forced to treat your social media metrics as the center of your life because your friends say that you have to, then I submit that the issue is your choice of friends.