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Aside from "personal anecdote does not override broad scientific evidence": Keto was not responsible for you losing weight or putting your diabetes into remissi

Aside from "personal anecdote does not override broad scientific evidence": Keto was not responsible for you losing weight or putting your diabetes into remission. Portion control / caloric restriction was. (And increased activity level you likely undertook at the same time.) You had diabetes because you were likely obese and inactive. Not because you were eating bread, FFS. I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand the concept is literally just "calories in minus calories used / out = weight gain or loss." It is simple thermodynamics. Keto/Paleo diets are among the least nutritious and most difficult to adhere to (most people who claim to follow keto/paleo don't, because it's extremely restrictive), consistently ranking among the worst diets health-wise by nutritional scientists. One of the best is the Mediterranean diet, one which involves no red meat. > As for all the other stuff, all farming has environmental impact. You can argue degrees of impact, That's literally what we're saying, and there's plenty of proof. Beef uses ten times more resources than chicken: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/beef-uses-ten-times-more-resources-poultry-dairy-eggs-pork-180952103/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/beef-uses-ten-... You want to help the environment? Minimize your red meat consumption. That alone makes a huge difference. The second biggest difference you can make is minimizing energy use for personal transportation, and the third biggest difference is reducing energy consumption in your home (mostly heating/cooling.)

codeflow2202 5y ago
Where is your first sentence coming from though? Afaik keto works well by stabilizing and lowering insulin release with the effect of minimizing the storage of fat and carb cravings caused by sugar crashes. If you want to you can literally skip a meal without becoming grumpy, lightheaded or ravenous. Also: how can a diet composed of meat, fish, cruciferous and green leafy vegetables, cheese, nuts, berries, fatty fruits like avocado and olives, and healthy oils be one of the least nutritious diets around? A vegan diet is clearly scoring much worse on this topic I'm afraid. To give you an example in this study where different foods are evaluated based on their micronutrient density (in an attempt to combat malnutrition) you'll see that the top foods are all of animal origin: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.806566/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.80656... Results: We find that the top sources of priority micronutrients are organs, small fish, dark green leafy vegetables, bivalves, crustaceans, goat, beef, eggs, milk, canned fish with bones, mutton, and lamb. Cheese, goat milk, and pork are also good sources, and to a lesser extent, yogurt, fresh fish, pulses, teff, and canned fish without bones.
- kcplate 5y ago
  The problem is that most folks don’t know what keto is…they assume we are all eating a pound of bacon a day and nothing else. Its a ridiculous notion. Starting keto for me eliminated literally all processed foods. Every food I eat is is pretty much its whole form, excepting cheeses, butter, and olive oil. There are quite a few processed foods on the market called “keto”, but most folks I know on the diet tend to avoid or only use those very sparingly. On a weekly basis I eat eggs, cheese, pork, beef, fish, chicken, berries, nuts, and cruciferous vegetables. Some olive oil, and some butter. If that is unhealthy…I am not sure what healthy is.
nec4b 5y ago
> Mediterranean diet, one which involves no red meat There is no such thing, at least not for the people who live around the Mediterranean.
- codeflow2202 5y ago
  As an Italian I can assure you that the "blue zone Sardinians" don't go light on the pork meat, wine and cheese.
  - nec4b 5y ago
    I know. People think Mediterranean food is just some fish with vegetables and olive oil, which couldn't be further from the truth.
    - codeflow2202 5y ago
      It really depends. People living on the coast usually eats more fish, while inland people is more into pork. Olive oil is always used everywhere, just in the north there is a greater use of butter. Vegetables do get eaten but mostly as condiment of some other meat/fish or pasta. We indeed don't eat huge bowls of veggies as they make it sound. But we do eat a lot of seasonal fruit. And to add to the paradox, my region Umbria (which has the best longevity in Italy) is probably the Italian capital of cured meats.
    - colordrops 5y ago
      Lebanese food is probably the closest to an ideal Mediterranean diet. It really is mostly vegetables with olive oil with a sprinkle of some meat and grains.
kcplate 5y ago
> Keto was not responsible for you losing weight or putting your diabetes into remission Incorrect. Restricting carbohydrates absolutely was the reason my A1Hc went down and I came off insulin within 3 months of starting keto while I was still morbidly obese > I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand the concept is literally just "calories in minus calories used / out = weight gain or loss." It is simple thermodynamics. When did I state the contrary? I didnt. What Keto did for me was allow my body to reach satiety without excess caloric intake and stabilize my blood sugar levels which help control hunger. > Keto/Paleo diets are among the least nutritious and most difficult to adhere to (most people who claim to follow keto/paleo don't, because it's extremely restrictive), consistently ranking among the worst diets health-wise by nutritional scientists. One of the best is the Mediterranean diet, one which involves no red meat. I lived in the Mediterranean area for a number of years, I can assure you…plenty of red meat was consumed where I lived. By the way…I have been on a keto diet for more than 5 years. My heath is good, my doctor has zero complaints and has suggested keto as an option to other T2 diabetics and overweight folks in his practice because of the success it has had for me and some of his other patients. > You want to help the environment? I think my point was and is that I am not willing to do it at the expense of my own health. In terms of other things you mentioned, not sure why that is even part of the discussion.

codeflow2202 5y ago

Where is your first sentence coming from though? Afaik keto works well by stabilizing and lowering insulin release with the effect of minimizing the storage of fat and carb cravings caused by sugar crashes. If you want to you can literally skip a meal without becoming grumpy, lightheaded or ravenous. Also: how can a diet composed of meat, fish, cruciferous and green leafy vegetables, cheese, nuts, berries, fatty fruits like avocado and olives, and healthy oils be one of the least nutritious diets around? A vegan diet is clearly scoring much worse on this topic I'm afraid. To give you an example in this study where different foods are evaluated based on their micronutrient density (in an attempt to combat malnutrition) you'll see that the top foods are all of animal origin: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.806566/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.80656... Results: We find that the top sources of priority micronutrients are organs, small fish, dark green leafy vegetables, bivalves, crustaceans, goat, beef, eggs, milk, canned fish with bones, mutton, and lamb. Cheese, goat milk, and pork are also good sources, and to a lesser extent, yogurt, fresh fish, pulses, teff, and canned fish without bones.

kcplate 5y ago
The problem is that most folks don’t know what keto is…they assume we are all eating a pound of bacon a day and nothing else. Its a ridiculous notion. Starting keto for me eliminated literally all processed foods. Every food I eat is is pretty much its whole form, excepting cheeses, butter, and olive oil. There are quite a few processed foods on the market called “keto”, but most folks I know on the diet tend to avoid or only use those very sparingly. On a weekly basis I eat eggs, cheese, pork, beef, fish, chicken, berries, nuts, and cruciferous vegetables. Some olive oil, and some butter. If that is unhealthy…I am not sure what healthy is.

nec4b 5y ago

> Mediterranean diet, one which involves no red meat There is no such thing, at least not for the people who live around the Mediterranean.

codeflow2202 5y ago
As an Italian I can assure you that the "blue zone Sardinians" don't go light on the pork meat, wine and cheese.
- nec4b 5y ago
  I know. People think Mediterranean food is just some fish with vegetables and olive oil, which couldn't be further from the truth.
  - codeflow2202 5y ago
    It really depends. People living on the coast usually eats more fish, while inland people is more into pork. Olive oil is always used everywhere, just in the north there is a greater use of butter. Vegetables do get eaten but mostly as condiment of some other meat/fish or pasta. We indeed don't eat huge bowls of veggies as they make it sound. But we do eat a lot of seasonal fruit. And to add to the paradox, my region Umbria (which has the best longevity in Italy) is probably the Italian capital of cured meats.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    Lebanese food is probably the closest to an ideal Mediterranean diet. It really is mostly vegetables with olive oil with a sprinkle of some meat and grains.

kcplate 5y ago

> Keto was not responsible for you losing weight or putting your diabetes into remission Incorrect. Restricting carbohydrates absolutely was the reason my A1Hc went down and I came off insulin within 3 months of starting keto while I was still morbidly obese > I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand the concept is literally just "calories in minus calories used / out = weight gain or loss." It is simple thermodynamics. When did I state the contrary? I didnt. What Keto did for me was allow my body to reach satiety without excess caloric intake and stabilize my blood sugar levels which help control hunger. > Keto/Paleo diets are among the least nutritious and most difficult to adhere to (most people who claim to follow keto/paleo don't, because it's extremely restrictive), consistently ranking among the worst diets health-wise by nutritional scientists. One of the best is the Mediterranean diet, one which involves no red meat. I lived in the Mediterranean area for a number of years, I can assure you…plenty of red meat was consumed where I lived. By the way…I have been on a keto diet for more than 5 years. My heath is good, my doctor has zero complaints and has suggested keto as an option to other T2 diabetics and overweight folks in his practice because of the success it has had for me and some of his other patients. > You want to help the environment? I think my point was and is that I am not willing to do it at the expense of my own health. In terms of other things you mentioned, not sure why that is even part of the discussion.