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Keto is responsible for me losing 170lbs, putting my diabetes into remission (eliminating daily insulin). If it kills me at 75, so be it. That is better than

Keto is responsible for me losing 170lbs, putting my diabetes into remission (eliminating daily insulin). If it kills me at 75, so be it. That is better than dying in my 50s from diabetes. As for all the other stuff, all farming has environmental impact. You can argue degrees of impact, but at the end of the day I am just not willing to only eat items that have a lower environmental impact, but require me to stick a needle in my stomach every day and still be at a high risk of dropping dead 20 years earlier.

colordrops 5y ago
Being in an already extremely unhealthy position is not the standard with which we should judge a particular diet. Analogously, getting your stomach stapled would be bad for you if you had a health BMI but might be a good idea if you are 170lbs overweight. Also, your basic premise that red meat is the only way to lose weight is false. There's no reason that an appropriate weight loss diet that excludes red meat could not be crafted.
- kcplate 5y ago
  > Being in an already extremely unhealthy position is not the standard with which we should judge a particular diet. Ok. You judge it how you want, I said keto was successful for me. I made no universal declarations. > Also, your basic premise that red meat is the only way to lose weight is false. There's no reason that an appropriate weight loss diet that excludes red meat could not be crafted. Well I never said this. I said keto was successful for me. BTW: Equating keto to “red meat” is like saying “vegan = lentils”. You should probably learn more about keto. Edit: added some hard returns to clarify my responses to the quoted items.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    If you aren't implying a universal declaration, isn't your anecdote kind of a non-sequitur response to a comment about the general nature of red meat agriculture?
    - kcplate 5y ago
      No, I think your bias towards crop farming is reading more importance into the part of my comment that is actually the least important part to me. The most important part to me is the health benefits my diet provides me. The least important part to me is the environmental impact of producing those components of the diet that I eat. If I was a vegan, and the vegan diet resulted in health benefits for me, but vegan agriculture processes had more environmental impact, I would still eat vegan…because what is most important to me is the health benefit I am receiving. In this case I eat keto and receive health benefits from that diet that I am unwilling to give up just to satisfy the dogmatism of environmentalists who have a problem with pastoral farming.
      - colordrops 5y ago
        Fair, makes sense, I understand your thinking now. My response is that one person's dogmatism is another person's recognition of genocide. But I do understand that when you perceive that your life is at stake, the fate of rest of the world may not matter so much to you anymore.
        kcplate 5y ago
        > you perceive that your life is at stake, the fate of rest of the world may not matter so much to you anymore. This little underhanded slap is hilarious. I love it how you folks always try to frame things in “a single person is responsible for the entire apocalypse” terms. Frankly, it’s why your argument struggles. You devolve into ridiculous moral absolutism. Considering that conservatively almost 90% of the people on this earth eat meat, I’m pretty sure that any global catastrophe that may or may not arise from meat consumption will not fall solely at my feet.
        colordrops 5y ago
        And that's why these sorts of catastrophes occur. "Everyone else is doing something bad, so why should I stop?"
TaylorAlexander 5y ago
Congratulations! The latest studies suggest that a plant based whole food diet is equally if not more effective at weight loss than a keto diet. The most important thing is paying attention to what you eat! In a head to head study between keto and plant based, participants in both categories lost weight. It seems that a controlled reasonably healthy diet is the key. That said there are many anti-cancer fighting properties of a plant based diet. Consumption of meat and animal products seem to lead to higher cancer risks. I’m currently losing weight on a whole food plant based diet combined with modest daily fasting (10 hours eating, 14 hours fasting per day). Vegan vs keto study: https://youtu.be/SsSHzTsG4wY https://youtu.be/SsSHzTsG4wY Great lecture on weight loss with a plant based diet: https://youtu.be/EpRrD58Ah3Q https://youtu.be/EpRrD58Ah3Q Health concerns with a keto diet: https://youtu.be/nEjuZsP8o7g https://youtu.be/nEjuZsP8o7g That said I’m just a vegan who has been listening to these folks talk about this stuff, but I’m not an expert. I’m glad you found something that works!
- kcplate 5y ago
  At this point for me it’s less about the weight loss benefit and more about my body’s inability to effectively use the insulin. I’m not opposed to a plant based diet, but for me, the additional carbs would create extraneous insulin dependency. Most grains for me are just not doable at all…and every vegan/vegetarian I know seem to rely on grains as a main staple of their diet.
  - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
    Interesting. Yeah the reason I felt some concern was that I listen to the YouTube channel linked in the last two videos a lot and I get the impression that animal products create lots of long term health risks. But I’m thinking about my vegan diet. When I started I relied on a LOT of carbs and grains. It just made it easy but it wasn’t very healthy (I made a hard switch before I really knew what to eat). Now four years in I don’t buy any bread or bagels. I don’t have bread in the house. I eat some brown rice. I don’t know if that disagrees with you. Here’s my daily diet: 2 liters (I usually eat less/day) blended in a vitamix blender: water, carrots, oat milk, blueberries, mango, strawberries, peaches, flax seed meal, chia seeds, protein powder, powdered peanut butter (PB2), For lunch I have a big salad, I snack on apples and some very healthy crackers (Mary’s crackers) Dinner is usually either a lentil vegetable curry mixed with brown rice, or I will have brown rice and sautéed vegetables with something like peanut sauce or teriyaki sauce. And that’s it! That’s what I eat pretty much every day. Oh I make some bomb vegan tacos now and then. No fake meat just lots of amazing plants. Anyway! I just wanted to share because I like this stuff and also I don’t eat a lot of grains. The brown rice could be replaced with lentils or something for pretty much no grains. I really like the Nutrition Facts YouTube channel so poke around there if you’d like. I see he has some videos on insulin: https://youtu.be/AoHvkrcr6EM https://youtu.be/AoHvkrcr6EM https://youtu.be/UTxLHqeXZNQ https://youtu.be/UTxLHqeXZNQ To your health!
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Aside from "personal anecdote does not override broad scientific evidence": Keto was not responsible for you losing weight or putting your diabetes into remission. Portion control / caloric restriction was. (And increased activity level you likely undertook at the same time.) You had diabetes because you were likely obese and inactive. Not because you were eating bread, FFS. I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand the concept is literally just "calories in minus calories used / out = weight gain or loss." It is simple thermodynamics. Keto/Paleo diets are among the least nutritious and most difficult to adhere to (most people who claim to follow keto/paleo don't, because it's extremely restrictive), consistently ranking among the worst diets health-wise by nutritional scientists. One of the best is the Mediterranean diet, one which involves no red meat. > As for all the other stuff, all farming has environmental impact. You can argue degrees of impact, That's literally what we're saying, and there's plenty of proof. Beef uses ten times more resources than chicken: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/beef-uses-ten-times-more-resources-poultry-dairy-eggs-pork-180952103/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/beef-uses-ten-... You want to help the environment? Minimize your red meat consumption. That alone makes a huge difference. The second biggest difference you can make is minimizing energy use for personal transportation, and the third biggest difference is reducing energy consumption in your home (mostly heating/cooling.)
- codeflow2202 5y ago
  Where is your first sentence coming from though? Afaik keto works well by stabilizing and lowering insulin release with the effect of minimizing the storage of fat and carb cravings caused by sugar crashes. If you want to you can literally skip a meal without becoming grumpy, lightheaded or ravenous. Also: how can a diet composed of meat, fish, cruciferous and green leafy vegetables, cheese, nuts, berries, fatty fruits like avocado and olives, and healthy oils be one of the least nutritious diets around? A vegan diet is clearly scoring much worse on this topic I'm afraid. To give you an example in this study where different foods are evaluated based on their micronutrient density (in an attempt to combat malnutrition) you'll see that the top foods are all of animal origin: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.806566/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.80656... Results: We find that the top sources of priority micronutrients are organs, small fish, dark green leafy vegetables, bivalves, crustaceans, goat, beef, eggs, milk, canned fish with bones, mutton, and lamb. Cheese, goat milk, and pork are also good sources, and to a lesser extent, yogurt, fresh fish, pulses, teff, and canned fish without bones.
naileke 5y ago
Being in a caloric deficit of 3500kcals x [the amount of body fat pounds you lost] over a given period of time is responsible for losing [the amount of body fat pounts you lost] over that period, no matter what kind of food you eat. Keto might be responsible for you to adhere and stick to that caloric deficit though, and it's good that it worked for you, but that's not what drove your weight loss (anecdotally, I lost around 150lbs and never cut any food group out of my diet, I just track calories and proteins)
- kcplate 5y ago
  As I said in another comment above, I credit keto for the weight loss, but understand that CICO is mechanics behind the loss. Keto did two things for me that allowed calorie restriction. One, fat rich foods create satiety with smaller portions, which allowed me to eat less. Two, stabilizing blood glucose eliminated hunger for me which allowed me to eliminate snacking between meals. Carb restrictions allowed my body to manage the blood glucose with just my own body’s production of insulin, which eliminated extraneous insulin. Stable low blood glucose prevents small vessel damage which prevents most of the issues that are caused by type 2 diabetes
bscphil 5y ago
It's extremely irritating that every single thread related to food is swarmed by people spouting anecdotes as if they were absolute truth, and worse, acting as if those personal stories were adequate responses to general claims like > Red meat is absolutely devastating to the environment and water supply, with immense greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, and polluted water tables The above is an almost incontestable fact. Climate change and health experts both say we need to move western populations to a more plant based diet. But the moment someone brings that up, 25 people feel the need to jump in with their personal story about how eating nothing but red meat cleansed their vital bodily fluids. It's complete nonsense to respond to generalized scientific claims in this fashion and for some reason a lot of people don't realize this. Hacker News has a lot of people who think they can "hack" diet, aging, weight loss, what have you. I have my own personal anecdote, of course. I lost close to 100 pounds on a vegetarian diet on which I tried to avoid low-nutrient sugary foods. Doing this changed the course of my life. But I'm not going to claim that this fact about me makes any difference whatsoever to scientific claims abut what it makes sense for individuals or populations to be eating. A vegetarian diet is not the only way to lose weight or live a healthy life. Even if we take for granted that (contrary to all conventional medical wisdom) keto is the only way someone like you could live healthily, this simply has no impact whatsoever on the OP claim that red meat is bad for the environment and not necessary for the overwhelming majority of people to be eating.
- edanm 5y ago
  > Even if we take for granted that (contrary to all conventional medical wisdom) keto is the only way someone like you could live healthily, this simply has no impact whatsoever on the OP claim that red meat is bad for the environment and not necessary for the overwhelming majority of people to be eating. I agree. People are indeed mixing up 3 things that are only loosely related: 1. What is healthier. 2. What will cause you to lose weight (which is related to 1, but not exactly the same). 3. What is better for the planet. The three are different goals, which might or might not be opposed to each other.
- kcplate 5y ago
  > It's complete nonsense to respond to generalized scientific claims in this fashion and for some reason a lot of people don't realize this. Yet, you did. You are participating…you don’t realize this? > Even if we take for granted that (contrary to all conventional medical wisdom) keto is the only way someone like you could live healthily, this simply has no impact whatsoever on the OP claim that red meat is bad for the environment and not necessary for the overwhelming majority of people to be eating. No one to my knowledge talking about keto here made this absolutist claim. I know I didn’t. I simply provided my experience and commented on the fact that because of my success, environmental factors for agriculture do not factor into my dietary equation. I don’t understand the need y’all have to create a strawman here. Also, “conventional medical wisdom” for many years encouraged type 2 diabetics to eat a diet based on grains, fruits, and pasta (I still have the pamphlets that were given to me when first diagnosed) supplemented by many lovely and expensive pharmaceutical therapies for people to manage their diabetes. Three years ago, the American Diabetes Association reversed its opinion of low carb and keto, declaring them effective and safe strategies to manage type 2 diabetes via diet. So…effectively keto and low carb has become “conventional medical wisdom”. Finally…you eat how you want, and I’ll eat how I want. I’m happy you found a diet that is successful for you. Keep eating it and don’t let some random person on the internet try and shame you about it for any reason, because it’s none of their damned business.

colordrops 5y ago

Being in an already extremely unhealthy position is not the standard with which we should judge a particular diet. Analogously, getting your stomach stapled would be bad for you if you had a health BMI but might be a good idea if you are 170lbs overweight. Also, your basic premise that red meat is the only way to lose weight is false. There's no reason that an appropriate weight loss diet that excludes red meat could not be crafted.

kcplate 5y ago
> Being in an already extremely unhealthy position is not the standard with which we should judge a particular diet. Ok. You judge it how you want, I said keto was successful for me. I made no universal declarations. > Also, your basic premise that red meat is the only way to lose weight is false. There's no reason that an appropriate weight loss diet that excludes red meat could not be crafted. Well I never said this. I said keto was successful for me. BTW: Equating keto to “red meat” is like saying “vegan = lentils”. You should probably learn more about keto. Edit: added some hard returns to clarify my responses to the quoted items.
- colordrops 5y ago
  If you aren't implying a universal declaration, isn't your anecdote kind of a non-sequitur response to a comment about the general nature of red meat agriculture?
  - kcplate 5y ago
    No, I think your bias towards crop farming is reading more importance into the part of my comment that is actually the least important part to me. The most important part to me is the health benefits my diet provides me. The least important part to me is the environmental impact of producing those components of the diet that I eat. If I was a vegan, and the vegan diet resulted in health benefits for me, but vegan agriculture processes had more environmental impact, I would still eat vegan…because what is most important to me is the health benefit I am receiving. In this case I eat keto and receive health benefits from that diet that I am unwilling to give up just to satisfy the dogmatism of environmentalists who have a problem with pastoral farming.
    - colordrops 5y ago
      Fair, makes sense, I understand your thinking now. My response is that one person's dogmatism is another person's recognition of genocide. But I do understand that when you perceive that your life is at stake, the fate of rest of the world may not matter so much to you anymore.
      - kcplate 5y ago
        > you perceive that your life is at stake, the fate of rest of the world may not matter so much to you anymore. This little underhanded slap is hilarious. I love it how you folks always try to frame things in “a single person is responsible for the entire apocalypse” terms. Frankly, it’s why your argument struggles. You devolve into ridiculous moral absolutism. Considering that conservatively almost 90% of the people on this earth eat meat, I’m pretty sure that any global catastrophe that may or may not arise from meat consumption will not fall solely at my feet.
        colordrops 5y ago
        And that's why these sorts of catastrophes occur. "Everyone else is doing something bad, so why should I stop?"

TaylorAlexander 5y ago

Congratulations! The latest studies suggest that a plant based whole food diet is equally if not more effective at weight loss than a keto diet. The most important thing is paying attention to what you eat! In a head to head study between keto and plant based, participants in both categories lost weight. It seems that a controlled reasonably healthy diet is the key. That said there are many anti-cancer fighting properties of a plant based diet. Consumption of meat and animal products seem to lead to higher cancer risks. I’m currently losing weight on a whole food plant based diet combined with modest daily fasting (10 hours eating, 14 hours fasting per day). Vegan vs keto study: https://youtu.be/SsSHzTsG4wY https://youtu.be/SsSHzTsG4wY Great lecture on weight loss with a plant based diet: https://youtu.be/EpRrD58Ah3Q https://youtu.be/EpRrD58Ah3Q Health concerns with a keto diet: https://youtu.be/nEjuZsP8o7g https://youtu.be/nEjuZsP8o7g That said I’m just a vegan who has been listening to these folks talk about this stuff, but I’m not an expert. I’m glad you found something that works!

kcplate 5y ago
At this point for me it’s less about the weight loss benefit and more about my body’s inability to effectively use the insulin. I’m not opposed to a plant based diet, but for me, the additional carbs would create extraneous insulin dependency. Most grains for me are just not doable at all…and every vegan/vegetarian I know seem to rely on grains as a main staple of their diet.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  Interesting. Yeah the reason I felt some concern was that I listen to the YouTube channel linked in the last two videos a lot and I get the impression that animal products create lots of long term health risks. But I’m thinking about my vegan diet. When I started I relied on a LOT of carbs and grains. It just made it easy but it wasn’t very healthy (I made a hard switch before I really knew what to eat). Now four years in I don’t buy any bread or bagels. I don’t have bread in the house. I eat some brown rice. I don’t know if that disagrees with you. Here’s my daily diet: 2 liters (I usually eat less/day) blended in a vitamix blender: water, carrots, oat milk, blueberries, mango, strawberries, peaches, flax seed meal, chia seeds, protein powder, powdered peanut butter (PB2), For lunch I have a big salad, I snack on apples and some very healthy crackers (Mary’s crackers) Dinner is usually either a lentil vegetable curry mixed with brown rice, or I will have brown rice and sautéed vegetables with something like peanut sauce or teriyaki sauce. And that’s it! That’s what I eat pretty much every day. Oh I make some bomb vegan tacos now and then. No fake meat just lots of amazing plants. Anyway! I just wanted to share because I like this stuff and also I don’t eat a lot of grains. The brown rice could be replaced with lentils or something for pretty much no grains. I really like the Nutrition Facts YouTube channel so poke around there if you’d like. I see he has some videos on insulin: https://youtu.be/AoHvkrcr6EM https://youtu.be/AoHvkrcr6EM https://youtu.be/UTxLHqeXZNQ https://youtu.be/UTxLHqeXZNQ To your health!

KennyBlanken 5y ago

Aside from "personal anecdote does not override broad scientific evidence": Keto was not responsible for you losing weight or putting your diabetes into remission. Portion control / caloric restriction was. (And increased activity level you likely undertook at the same time.) You had diabetes because you were likely obese and inactive. Not because you were eating bread, FFS. I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand the concept is literally just "calories in minus calories used / out = weight gain or loss." It is simple thermodynamics. Keto/Paleo diets are among the least nutritious and most difficult to adhere to (most people who claim to follow keto/paleo don't, because it's extremely restrictive), consistently ranking among the worst diets health-wise by nutritional scientists. One of the best is the Mediterranean diet, one which involves no red meat. > As for all the other stuff, all farming has environmental impact. You can argue degrees of impact, That's literally what we're saying, and there's plenty of proof. Beef uses ten times more resources than chicken: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/beef-uses-ten-times-more-resources-poultry-dairy-eggs-pork-180952103/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/beef-uses-ten-... You want to help the environment? Minimize your red meat consumption. That alone makes a huge difference. The second biggest difference you can make is minimizing energy use for personal transportation, and the third biggest difference is reducing energy consumption in your home (mostly heating/cooling.)

codeflow2202 5y ago
Where is your first sentence coming from though? Afaik keto works well by stabilizing and lowering insulin release with the effect of minimizing the storage of fat and carb cravings caused by sugar crashes. If you want to you can literally skip a meal without becoming grumpy, lightheaded or ravenous. Also: how can a diet composed of meat, fish, cruciferous and green leafy vegetables, cheese, nuts, berries, fatty fruits like avocado and olives, and healthy oils be one of the least nutritious diets around? A vegan diet is clearly scoring much worse on this topic I'm afraid. To give you an example in this study where different foods are evaluated based on their micronutrient density (in an attempt to combat malnutrition) you'll see that the top foods are all of animal origin: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.806566/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.80656... Results: We find that the top sources of priority micronutrients are organs, small fish, dark green leafy vegetables, bivalves, crustaceans, goat, beef, eggs, milk, canned fish with bones, mutton, and lamb. Cheese, goat milk, and pork are also good sources, and to a lesser extent, yogurt, fresh fish, pulses, teff, and canned fish without bones.

naileke 5y ago

Being in a caloric deficit of 3500kcals x [the amount of body fat pounds you lost] over a given period of time is responsible for losing [the amount of body fat pounts you lost] over that period, no matter what kind of food you eat. Keto might be responsible for you to adhere and stick to that caloric deficit though, and it's good that it worked for you, but that's not what drove your weight loss (anecdotally, I lost around 150lbs and never cut any food group out of my diet, I just track calories and proteins)

kcplate 5y ago
As I said in another comment above, I credit keto for the weight loss, but understand that CICO is mechanics behind the loss. Keto did two things for me that allowed calorie restriction. One, fat rich foods create satiety with smaller portions, which allowed me to eat less. Two, stabilizing blood glucose eliminated hunger for me which allowed me to eliminate snacking between meals. Carb restrictions allowed my body to manage the blood glucose with just my own body’s production of insulin, which eliminated extraneous insulin. Stable low blood glucose prevents small vessel damage which prevents most of the issues that are caused by type 2 diabetes

bscphil 5y ago

It's extremely irritating that every single thread related to food is swarmed by people spouting anecdotes as if they were absolute truth, and worse, acting as if those personal stories were adequate responses to general claims like > Red meat is absolutely devastating to the environment and water supply, with immense greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, and polluted water tables The above is an almost incontestable fact. Climate change and health experts both say we need to move western populations to a more plant based diet. But the moment someone brings that up, 25 people feel the need to jump in with their personal story about how eating nothing but red meat cleansed their vital bodily fluids. It's complete nonsense to respond to generalized scientific claims in this fashion and for some reason a lot of people don't realize this. Hacker News has a lot of people who think they can "hack" diet, aging, weight loss, what have you. I have my own personal anecdote, of course. I lost close to 100 pounds on a vegetarian diet on which I tried to avoid low-nutrient sugary foods. Doing this changed the course of my life. But I'm not going to claim that this fact about me makes any difference whatsoever to scientific claims abut what it makes sense for individuals or populations to be eating. A vegetarian diet is not the only way to lose weight or live a healthy life. Even if we take for granted that (contrary to all conventional medical wisdom) keto is the only way someone like you could live healthily, this simply has no impact whatsoever on the OP claim that red meat is bad for the environment and not necessary for the overwhelming majority of people to be eating.

edanm 5y ago
> Even if we take for granted that (contrary to all conventional medical wisdom) keto is the only way someone like you could live healthily, this simply has no impact whatsoever on the OP claim that red meat is bad for the environment and not necessary for the overwhelming majority of people to be eating. I agree. People are indeed mixing up 3 things that are only loosely related: 1. What is healthier. 2. What will cause you to lose weight (which is related to 1, but not exactly the same). 3. What is better for the planet. The three are different goals, which might or might not be opposed to each other.
kcplate 5y ago
> It's complete nonsense to respond to generalized scientific claims in this fashion and for some reason a lot of people don't realize this. Yet, you did. You are participating…you don’t realize this? > Even if we take for granted that (contrary to all conventional medical wisdom) keto is the only way someone like you could live healthily, this simply has no impact whatsoever on the OP claim that red meat is bad for the environment and not necessary for the overwhelming majority of people to be eating. No one to my knowledge talking about keto here made this absolutist claim. I know I didn’t. I simply provided my experience and commented on the fact that because of my success, environmental factors for agriculture do not factor into my dietary equation. I don’t understand the need y’all have to create a strawman here. Also, “conventional medical wisdom” for many years encouraged type 2 diabetics to eat a diet based on grains, fruits, and pasta (I still have the pamphlets that were given to me when first diagnosed) supplemented by many lovely and expensive pharmaceutical therapies for people to manage their diabetes. Three years ago, the American Diabetes Association reversed its opinion of low carb and keto, declaring them effective and safe strategies to manage type 2 diabetes via diet. So…effectively keto and low carb has become “conventional medical wisdom”. Finally…you eat how you want, and I’ll eat how I want. I’m happy you found a diet that is successful for you. Keep eating it and don’t let some random person on the internet try and shame you about it for any reason, because it’s none of their damned business.