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In spirit I agree with you. The reality gets more complicated. The canonical example here is Netflix. Netflix's traffic is _mostly_ outbound and because it's vi

In spirit I agree with you. The reality gets more complicated. The canonical example here is Netflix. Netflix's traffic is _mostly_ outbound and because it's video streaming, there's lots of it. If an ISP has a 10G circuit, then Netflix may end up taking up 50% of that circuit during prime after-work time. Because the circuit is limited in throughput, if Netflix takes up 50%, then remaining internet services need to fit in the other 50%, which can lead to a bad time for everyone (dropped packets from Netflix, dropped packets while trying to fetch your email, it's whatever the router decides to prioritize.) Now of course the ISP can add another circuit or upgrade their current circuit, but that costs them money. Or, the ISP could choose to drop Netflix packets first, which may degrade Netflix quality but not make it completely unusable the way dropping email packets might. The latter is an opposing perspective to net neutrality (the ISP is specifically choosing to drop Netflix packets at a higher rate than other packets.) I'm not against net neutrality myself, just trying to add a bit of background behind why certain folks may oppose it.

bombcar 5y ago
This is exactly why it started because Netflix switched to a lower tier provider (Level3 iirc) and the big ISPs wanted money pay for the transit which Level3 and Netflix didn’t want to pay. It all went away when Netflix started installing CDN caches.
- seanp2k2 5y ago
  It wasn’t just through installing caches, it was through paying ISPs: https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/29/netflix-and-att-sign-peering-agreement/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/29/netflix-and-att-sign-peeri... And it wasn’t just level3, it was L3, Akamai, and Limelight: https://www.businessinsider.com/akamai-to-lose-netflix-as-a-customer-level-3-and-limelight-pick-up-the-business-2010-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/akamai-to-lose-netflix-as-a-...
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>Now of course the ISP can add another circuit or upgrade their current circuit, but that costs them money. generally when businesses have a cost they charge extra to cover that. Or theoretically they may be making enough money that they could have less profit for a year to improve service. >the ISP is specifically choosing to drop Netflix packets at a higher rate than other packets. yeah, and then they are saying we would like to be able to offer a service where we don't drop packets of particular customers if they pay us money. So the 'nice packets you got there, shame if anything were to happen to them' business model.
martin8412 5y ago
Netflix offered to pay for the circuit upgrade in the case of Verizon. They're both present at some of the facilites, so upgrading would be a small matter of adding more interconnects.. Verizon refused point blank.

bombcar 5y ago

This is exactly why it started because Netflix switched to a lower tier provider (Level3 iirc) and the big ISPs wanted money pay for the transit which Level3 and Netflix didn’t want to pay. It all went away when Netflix started installing CDN caches.

seanp2k2 5y ago
It wasn’t just through installing caches, it was through paying ISPs: https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/29/netflix-and-att-sign-peering-agreement/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/29/netflix-and-att-sign-peeri... And it wasn’t just level3, it was L3, Akamai, and Limelight: https://www.businessinsider.com/akamai-to-lose-netflix-as-a-customer-level-3-and-limelight-pick-up-the-business-2010-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/akamai-to-lose-netflix-as-a-...

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>Now of course the ISP can add another circuit or upgrade their current circuit, but that costs them money. generally when businesses have a cost they charge extra to cover that. Or theoretically they may be making enough money that they could have less profit for a year to improve service. >the ISP is specifically choosing to drop Netflix packets at a higher rate than other packets. yeah, and then they are saying we would like to be able to offer a service where we don't drop packets of particular customers if they pay us money. So the 'nice packets you got there, shame if anything were to happen to them' business model.

martin8412 5y ago

Netflix offered to pay for the circuit upgrade in the case of Verizon. They're both present at some of the facilites, so upgrading would be a small matter of adding more interconnects.. Verizon refused point blank.