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Is Musk known really for his shrewd political skills and sharp maneuvers? If I were a Tesla shareholder and this was his actual masterplan to maximize value fo

Is Musk known really for his shrewd political skills and sharp maneuvers? If I were a Tesla shareholder and this was his actual masterplan to maximize value for shareholders, I'd unload my stake in a heartbeat because I know his brand and business holdings will got tainted by his politics like what happened with Trump, and the plan will most likely backfire and decimate his business empire.

mehrdada 4y ago
> If I were a Tesla shareholder and this was his actual masterplan to maximize value for shareholders Doesn’t have to be either-or. Marketing strategy is an important part of running Tesla and given the empirical dislike of media establishment of him, ensuring Twitter won’t go against him on a whim of the board seems strategically important. > business holdings will got tainted by his politics like what happened with Trump Is there data on Trump businesses doing materially worse overall after the taint? I assume the half of US that like him bolster it and the other half see the taint but the vector sum is material here.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  Alternatively he stops being the whimsical "fun" billionaire that people find amusing, and starts being the tyrannical billionaire that people hate. This results in political backlash and a massive boycott of Tesla's consumer products. To be clear: Elon buying Twitter doesn't necessarily trigger any of this. Elon using that influence to actually push Twitter around in ways that are "useful" to Tesla shareholders potentially does. For Tesla shareholders I'd say the risk here is much higher than any possible reward.
  - robonerd 4y ago
    > For Tesla shareholders I'd say the risk here is much higher than any possible reward. I think that's probably right. But do those Tesla shareholders believe it?
  - mehrdada 4y ago
    > massive boycott of Tesla's consumer products. I mean we could speculate at length but the condition you’re describing already exists. People have polar reactions to him. Some hate with a passion, some love him. As for boycott, I’m not surprised if a lot of people already feel like they won’t buy a Tesla. Hard to imagine it can get worse from here.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - robonerd 4y ago
      > Hard to imagine it can get worse from here. He could get indicted for the FSD scamming and bring the whole thing tumbling down. If he stuck to just selling battery powered cars I'd be a lot more bullish on TSLA, but he hasn't and I think his antics represent a serious threat to the company in the long run.
      - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
        I think the opposite. Getting it right once is hard enough but the fact Musk has been a core figure involved in the development of: - Paypal - Tesla - SpaceX Tells me that his success isn't a fluke. You might get lucky with one of those companies, but with three? Don't think so.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      > . Hard to imagine it can get worse from here. I imagine a lot of "save the earth" and "Let's go to Mars" people overlap with the "Fuck Donald Trump" people. So letting Trump back on Twitter may cause them to swear off Teslas and DogeCoin. Alternatively, not letting Trump back may cause a bunch of truck-driving Texans he's been targeting to convert to electric to tell him to fuck off. Bottom line, it puts Musk in the unenviable position of having to piss off a third of the country by deciding if Trump has a Twitter account. And while I would still swap with him in a second, this is an additional burden he's putting on himself.
- FerociousTimes 4y ago
  > ensuring Twitter won’t go against him on a whim of the board Can you tell me please what you mean by this? AFAIK, Twitter is decentralized and fragmented for any actor to orchestrate an all-out political witch hunt where everyone on the platform goes against anyone in particular. As far as Trump's business holdings go, Trump Organization runs like a brand management firm where they license and operate businesses with Trump name plastered on them, and I believe it's safe to say that the brand name's risk profile increased greatly due to the association with Trumpism from 2015 onward.
  - mehrdada 4y ago
    > Can you tell me please what you mean by this? Twitter can find an excuse to ban his account (you can easily imagine this sort of risk exists after some of his recent meme tweets for example). I believe that is a single point of failure in Tesla PR strategy and a risk to be mitigated. > brand name's risk profile increased Risk profile sure but has the net value decreased or increased due to his presidency? I don’t have data to say it’s one way or another but looking at the downside without the upside as well is futile.
    - hackerfromthefu 4y ago
      Well .. not really. Not at all. How could you even think it matters? Musk could simply setup muskannouncements.com and blog his own tweets. No one may search for your announcements, but you better believe for his site he will still get full coverage. ergo he's not doing it for his own announcements. it will be for a mix of media influence, and to address the bias in twitters 'fact checking'
      - smaudet 4y ago
        > ergo he's not doing it for his own announcements. I do agree he is doing things for reasons besides his own announcements, but I cannot agree that it's not part of it. Some people may simply not care enough about EVs to bother, as technologists we assume people see the world through our lens but I bet you many people have barely bothered to research his cars, they only know Tesla in a cursory fashion the same way you might know Nissan or Kia, or even computers (people exist who struggle to use anything more complex than a power button, these can be intelligent well read people even). If you do use Twitter say, to follow XYZ (not even certain this is correct, I don't and struggle to use Twitter although I have a general idea how it works), if they see some promoted or retweet involving a Tesla, they are likely to learn more or investigate further. Owning this would be a non insignificant marketing advantage.
robonerd 4y ago
> Is Musk known really for his shrewd political skills and sharp maneuvers? The question should be whether TSLA shareholders think he is, and I think most of them probably do. (I don't own any TSLA, btw. But from what I've seen, many of his fanboys love him for being conniving while simultaneously claiming he's done nothing wrong. I believe this is an example of double-think. But the subject of this discussion is how these people might react to Elon Musk controlling Twitter, not whether their allegiance to Elon Musk is rational and rhetorically consistent.)
- FerociousTimes 4y ago
  Is really the makeup of TSLA shareholders a bunch of WallStreetBets dummies? I really doubt that this is the case. I know that there's some real retail investor interest in the stock price movement and for a minority the fundamentals, but I'm sure there's some institutional investors and smart money who are in it for the long run and who analyze the company's financial statements, and evaluate and scrutinize the founder's every move and decision and this Dr. Evil's scheme of taking over Twitter and turn the platform as a tool of propaganda for Musk's financial interests and self-aggrandizement looks very concerning to put it mildly.
  - mehrdada 4y ago
    > tool of propaganda for Musk's financial interests and self-aggrandizement looks very very concerning to put it mildly How is it any different than Bezos buying WaPo, in principle? That does not seem to have been detrimental to Amazon shareholders. And how does having a propaganda arm detrimental to Tesla financial interests? Marketing is a euphemism for propaganda after all. (I can see legitimate Tesla shareholder concern for Musk attention being spread too thin, but to claim having Twitter makes things worse beyond his existing presence as a user seems ridiculous.)
    - FerociousTimes 4y ago
      Correct me if I'm wrong, I have not seen WaPo pushing Amazon propaganda in their content. I'd like to take this occasion to remind you that my first comment was a rebuttal to someone's argument speculating about the motive or rationale behind this acquisition and posited that Musk's control of the platform would afford him political influence to further his own financial interests, hence my opening reply.
AlchemistCamp 4y ago
> Is Musk known really for his shrewd political skills and sharp maneuvers? He should be. Solidly Republican-leaning Texans are buying and driving electric vehicles, in some cases believing that doing so is "owning the libs". Tesla seemed like an impossible long shot 15 years ago, not just for the considerable technical and business challenges but also because most Americans were happily buying gas-gusslers and even fantastic hybrids like the Prius were still somewhat niche. At the time, not a single major car company was willing to invest seriously in building electric vehicles. Now there's gigafactory right outside Austin. It's something I did not think would have been possible. Tesla has threaded a nearly impossible needle to get to where it is in 2022.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > He should be. Solidly Republican-leaning Texans are buying and driving electric vehicles, in some cases believing that doing so is "owning the libs". Could this attempt at buying Twitter be part of the same vice-signalling[1] schtick, then? 1. As in "See how I hate the same things you do?"
- FerociousTimes 4y ago
  All these examples are business bets and not political ones. Don't get me wrong, they're astoundingly impressive but of the wrong type. I don't dispute that he's a shrewd businessman and fancy visionary but when it comes to the world of politics, I have my doubts and reservations. I'd like to see action and results first before I can vouch for him in that field.
  - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
    > I don't dispute that he's a shrewd businessman and fancy visionary but when it comes to the world of politics, I have my doubts and reservations. In this day and age you don't become a billionaire without being good at politics. Navigating the regulatory state is an enormous task even when you don't have people laser-focused on you like Musk would due to his wealth and size of his companies.

mehrdada 4y ago

> If I were a Tesla shareholder and this was his actual masterplan to maximize value for shareholders Doesn’t have to be either-or. Marketing strategy is an important part of running Tesla and given the empirical dislike of media establishment of him, ensuring Twitter won’t go against him on a whim of the board seems strategically important. > business holdings will got tainted by his politics like what happened with Trump Is there data on Trump businesses doing materially worse overall after the taint? I assume the half of US that like him bolster it and the other half see the taint but the vector sum is material here.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
Alternatively he stops being the whimsical "fun" billionaire that people find amusing, and starts being the tyrannical billionaire that people hate. This results in political backlash and a massive boycott of Tesla's consumer products. To be clear: Elon buying Twitter doesn't necessarily trigger any of this. Elon using that influence to actually push Twitter around in ways that are "useful" to Tesla shareholders potentially does. For Tesla shareholders I'd say the risk here is much higher than any possible reward.
- robonerd 4y ago
  > For Tesla shareholders I'd say the risk here is much higher than any possible reward. I think that's probably right. But do those Tesla shareholders believe it?
- mehrdada 4y ago
  > massive boycott of Tesla's consumer products. I mean we could speculate at length but the condition you’re describing already exists. People have polar reactions to him. Some hate with a passion, some love him. As for boycott, I’m not surprised if a lot of people already feel like they won’t buy a Tesla. Hard to imagine it can get worse from here.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - robonerd 4y ago
    > Hard to imagine it can get worse from here. He could get indicted for the FSD scamming and bring the whole thing tumbling down. If he stuck to just selling battery powered cars I'd be a lot more bullish on TSLA, but he hasn't and I think his antics represent a serious threat to the company in the long run.
    - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
      I think the opposite. Getting it right once is hard enough but the fact Musk has been a core figure involved in the development of: - Paypal - Tesla - SpaceX Tells me that his success isn't a fluke. You might get lucky with one of those companies, but with three? Don't think so.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > . Hard to imagine it can get worse from here. I imagine a lot of "save the earth" and "Let's go to Mars" people overlap with the "Fuck Donald Trump" people. So letting Trump back on Twitter may cause them to swear off Teslas and DogeCoin. Alternatively, not letting Trump back may cause a bunch of truck-driving Texans he's been targeting to convert to electric to tell him to fuck off. Bottom line, it puts Musk in the unenviable position of having to piss off a third of the country by deciding if Trump has a Twitter account. And while I would still swap with him in a second, this is an additional burden he's putting on himself.
FerociousTimes 4y ago
> ensuring Twitter won’t go against him on a whim of the board Can you tell me please what you mean by this? AFAIK, Twitter is decentralized and fragmented for any actor to orchestrate an all-out political witch hunt where everyone on the platform goes against anyone in particular. As far as Trump's business holdings go, Trump Organization runs like a brand management firm where they license and operate businesses with Trump name plastered on them, and I believe it's safe to say that the brand name's risk profile increased greatly due to the association with Trumpism from 2015 onward.
- mehrdada 4y ago
  > Can you tell me please what you mean by this? Twitter can find an excuse to ban his account (you can easily imagine this sort of risk exists after some of his recent meme tweets for example). I believe that is a single point of failure in Tesla PR strategy and a risk to be mitigated. > brand name's risk profile increased Risk profile sure but has the net value decreased or increased due to his presidency? I don’t have data to say it’s one way or another but looking at the downside without the upside as well is futile.
  - hackerfromthefu 4y ago
    Well .. not really. Not at all. How could you even think it matters? Musk could simply setup muskannouncements.com and blog his own tweets. No one may search for your announcements, but you better believe for his site he will still get full coverage. ergo he's not doing it for his own announcements. it will be for a mix of media influence, and to address the bias in twitters 'fact checking'
    - smaudet 4y ago
      > ergo he's not doing it for his own announcements. I do agree he is doing things for reasons besides his own announcements, but I cannot agree that it's not part of it. Some people may simply not care enough about EVs to bother, as technologists we assume people see the world through our lens but I bet you many people have barely bothered to research his cars, they only know Tesla in a cursory fashion the same way you might know Nissan or Kia, or even computers (people exist who struggle to use anything more complex than a power button, these can be intelligent well read people even). If you do use Twitter say, to follow XYZ (not even certain this is correct, I don't and struggle to use Twitter although I have a general idea how it works), if they see some promoted or retweet involving a Tesla, they are likely to learn more or investigate further. Owning this would be a non insignificant marketing advantage.

robonerd 4y ago

> Is Musk known really for his shrewd political skills and sharp maneuvers? The question should be whether TSLA shareholders think he is, and I think most of them probably do. (I don't own any TSLA, btw. But from what I've seen, many of his fanboys love him for being conniving while simultaneously claiming he's done nothing wrong. I believe this is an example of double-think. But the subject of this discussion is how these people might react to Elon Musk controlling Twitter, not whether their allegiance to Elon Musk is rational and rhetorically consistent.)

FerociousTimes 4y ago
Is really the makeup of TSLA shareholders a bunch of WallStreetBets dummies? I really doubt that this is the case. I know that there's some real retail investor interest in the stock price movement and for a minority the fundamentals, but I'm sure there's some institutional investors and smart money who are in it for the long run and who analyze the company's financial statements, and evaluate and scrutinize the founder's every move and decision and this Dr. Evil's scheme of taking over Twitter and turn the platform as a tool of propaganda for Musk's financial interests and self-aggrandizement looks very concerning to put it mildly.
- mehrdada 4y ago
  > tool of propaganda for Musk's financial interests and self-aggrandizement looks very very concerning to put it mildly How is it any different than Bezos buying WaPo, in principle? That does not seem to have been detrimental to Amazon shareholders. And how does having a propaganda arm detrimental to Tesla financial interests? Marketing is a euphemism for propaganda after all. (I can see legitimate Tesla shareholder concern for Musk attention being spread too thin, but to claim having Twitter makes things worse beyond his existing presence as a user seems ridiculous.)
  - FerociousTimes 4y ago
    Correct me if I'm wrong, I have not seen WaPo pushing Amazon propaganda in their content. I'd like to take this occasion to remind you that my first comment was a rebuttal to someone's argument speculating about the motive or rationale behind this acquisition and posited that Musk's control of the platform would afford him political influence to further his own financial interests, hence my opening reply.

AlchemistCamp 4y ago

> Is Musk known really for his shrewd political skills and sharp maneuvers? He should be. Solidly Republican-leaning Texans are buying and driving electric vehicles, in some cases believing that doing so is "owning the libs". Tesla seemed like an impossible long shot 15 years ago, not just for the considerable technical and business challenges but also because most Americans were happily buying gas-gusslers and even fantastic hybrids like the Prius were still somewhat niche. At the time, not a single major car company was willing to invest seriously in building electric vehicles. Now there's gigafactory right outside Austin. It's something I did not think would have been possible. Tesla has threaded a nearly impossible needle to get to where it is in 2022.

sangnoir 4y ago
> He should be. Solidly Republican-leaning Texans are buying and driving electric vehicles, in some cases believing that doing so is "owning the libs". Could this attempt at buying Twitter be part of the same vice-signalling[1] schtick, then? 1. As in "See how I hate the same things you do?"
FerociousTimes 4y ago
All these examples are business bets and not political ones. Don't get me wrong, they're astoundingly impressive but of the wrong type. I don't dispute that he's a shrewd businessman and fancy visionary but when it comes to the world of politics, I have my doubts and reservations. I'd like to see action and results first before I can vouch for him in that field.
- TapWaterBandit 4y ago
  > I don't dispute that he's a shrewd businessman and fancy visionary but when it comes to the world of politics, I have my doubts and reservations. In this day and age you don't become a billionaire without being good at politics. Navigating the regulatory state is an enormous task even when you don't have people laser-focused on you like Musk would due to his wealth and size of his companies.