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It's not clear to me that onshoring would be without utility if it's not on the current node. Surely there are vast improvements to security and defense concern

It's not clear to me that onshoring would be without utility if it's not on the current node. Surely there are vast improvements to security and defense concerns to be had through onshoring even if it's (conservatively) 3 years behind the cutting edge. There's also a good possibility that this would be useful in the market as well if it solves some supply chain issues. Car manufacturers won't need 3nm tech for quite some time, if ever. Hobbyist boards like the Pi have been hard to get for months now. Graphics cards that were 2-3 years old were going for huge premiums up until recently as well. All in all it seems as if there would be at least some markets for chip tech that isn't on the bleeding edge.

dragontamer 5y ago
USA has plenty of older fabrication labs, and most of our critical technology is probably on 22nm or 40nm nodes (or older). US Military equipment is pretty famously on old nodes / older technology for reliability and supply chain purposes for example. And its probably entirely domestic (Micron, Intel, GloFo). The need for higher-end nodes is almost a "luxury" factor. There's a benefit if the latest iPhones were brought onshore and were US-made. This is for economic reasons (less economic disruption if China attacks Taiwan), even if it leads to slightly higher costs. ------ I know that TSMC is pissed off at the "culture clash" in Arizona (one of these "on shore" US fab-labs) however. I can pretty much imagine a "Gung Ho" (1986 movie) situation occurring there. It doesn't look like the Arizona fab-lab will be complete in time, and TSMC is blaming US worker culture.
- bsder 5y ago
  > USA has plenty of older fabrication labs Do we? The current, continuing semiconductor shortage argues otherwise. I mean, the fact that a "switching regulator" can go out of stock borders on the absurd unless those fabs are busy producing stuff with higher margins.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    https://www.icinsights.com/news/bulletins/Taiwan-Maintains-Edge-As-Largest-Base-For-IC-Wafer-Capacity/ https://www.icinsights.com/news/bulletins/Taiwan-Maintains-E... "North America" is producing 2,623,000 wafers per month in 2020. In 2014, North America was producing 2,245,000 wafers/month. And remember: wafers are raw silicon. Since geometry continues to shrink (22nm, 14nm, 10nm, 7nm, 5nm), even here in the USA, each wafer is making more and more transistors. In any case, the issue is one of demand. COVID19 stressed the fab-labs like never before, requiring semiconductors to make laptops, cellphones, cameras and many other components. The car-manufacturing shutdown followed up by the rapid production increase was also a problem. By all measures, the worldwide supply of chips has increased. Its just that demand has outpaced supply. --------- It really does seem like the "cryptocoin" industry is eating up a lot of our production capacity. But also the rise in deep-learing platforms (GPUs/TPUs), SSD storage, and other transitions to semiconductors.

dragontamer 5y ago

USA has plenty of older fabrication labs, and most of our critical technology is probably on 22nm or 40nm nodes (or older). US Military equipment is pretty famously on old nodes / older technology for reliability and supply chain purposes for example. And its probably entirely domestic (Micron, Intel, GloFo). The need for higher-end nodes is almost a "luxury" factor. There's a benefit if the latest iPhones were brought onshore and were US-made. This is for economic reasons (less economic disruption if China attacks Taiwan), even if it leads to slightly higher costs. ------ I know that TSMC is pissed off at the "culture clash" in Arizona (one of these "on shore" US fab-labs) however. I can pretty much imagine a "Gung Ho" (1986 movie) situation occurring there. It doesn't look like the Arizona fab-lab will be complete in time, and TSMC is blaming US worker culture.

bsder 5y ago
> USA has plenty of older fabrication labs Do we? The current, continuing semiconductor shortage argues otherwise. I mean, the fact that a "switching regulator" can go out of stock borders on the absurd unless those fabs are busy producing stuff with higher margins.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  https://www.icinsights.com/news/bulletins/Taiwan-Maintains-Edge-As-Largest-Base-For-IC-Wafer-Capacity/ https://www.icinsights.com/news/bulletins/Taiwan-Maintains-E... "North America" is producing 2,623,000 wafers per month in 2020. In 2014, North America was producing 2,245,000 wafers/month. And remember: wafers are raw silicon. Since geometry continues to shrink (22nm, 14nm, 10nm, 7nm, 5nm), even here in the USA, each wafer is making more and more transistors. In any case, the issue is one of demand. COVID19 stressed the fab-labs like never before, requiring semiconductors to make laptops, cellphones, cameras and many other components. The car-manufacturing shutdown followed up by the rapid production increase was also a problem. By all measures, the worldwide supply of chips has increased. Its just that demand has outpaced supply. --------- It really does seem like the "cryptocoin" industry is eating up a lot of our production capacity. But also the rise in deep-learing platforms (GPUs/TPUs), SSD storage, and other transitions to semiconductors.