6 ms·

Vote to dissolve Disney’s special district, eliminating privileges

25 points by donsupreme 5y ago

jleyank 5y ago
Go for it! Let Disney transfer all of their ex-governmental issues and responsibilities to the local municipalities or the state/county governments. Let the taxpayers take over bond repayment/interest. Or, go nuclear and pull the plug. The stuff's 40-50 years old so it's been depreciated.
- DamnYuppie 5y ago
  I am not sure I follow this reasoning. I have two questions first what bonds would tax payers be on the hook for? Second exactly where would Disney pull up and go to if they left Orlando? I ask as it was challenging for them to buy up all that land way back in the 60's, they had to be very circumspect about doing it to avoid making the land prices sky rocket. As of today where can they buy that much land now and then rebuild the entire infrastructure of a Disney world? Keeping in mind that it would have to be somewhere warm and sunny most of the year so you are looking at CA, TX, and FL as the most likely contenders.
  - mkdirpepper 5y ago
    Austin
    - jleyank 5y ago
      Or, they throw their weight behind breaking the Cuban Embargo and aim for Disney Havana.
      - jleyank 5y ago
        It’s a semi humorous undercurrent here that Canadians should go to Cuba before the yanks can go there..
    - colburnmh 5y ago
      TX is only ~15 minutes behind FL in terms of fascist legislative agendas. Moving from FL to TX would just be moving into the same environment. They would probably want to go somewhere that would have at least a chance of being an actual welcoming and productive environment for them.
  - jleyank 5y ago
    I'm sure Disney is as good with financial modeling as any Wall Street firm. If they have responsibilities for things like water/sewer because they were an extra-governmental region, why would they not try to drop them like a stone if this was removed? Private companies aren't responsible for water, sewer, fire, police, ... all of the things needed to keep the peace. It's not like private companies are nice, friendly things, and The Mouse has been more company-like than most. Also, they have to do a determination on stay/go. Do they put more $$ into Florida or not? Is there a marketing risk operating there vs. not? Is there a business risk mucking about with theme parks or are they a 20th century phenomenon. Is expansion in the US the way to go or outside the US (Hard Rock Cafe voted for the latter a decade or more ago)? Which customer base has more disposable income that can be siphoned into the Mouse's pocket? If their tax position changes, the financial benefit changes. Given the push for unionization that is occurring (Starbucks, Amazon), it might not be worth pissing around with lots of (formerly) cheap labour. If their bonds or bottom-line is significantly affected by such a change, they'll have to act quickly to avoid Netflix-like damage. Or, all of this is BS, they hunker down and hope it passes in a year or two. However, it's been building up for 5-10 so far so that's probably naive. They can try funding the opposition, but that presupposes that there is a viable opposition in Florida. Disney Orlando requires tourism going to Florida to generate revenue, so they're damaged by stuff outside their control - people can get their mouse fix anywhere. And if the current Florida administration wins, the next round will be worse. So, unless Disney really goes along with what's going down, they're in an unenviable position. Losing control of the marketing and ending up as Hillbilly Heaven would hurt them bad outside the US.
    - colburnmh 5y ago
      Because, unlike most businesses, Disney's park straddles two different counties (Orange and Osceola). Therefore, they have to deal with two different counties to get anything done in a consistent fashion. Further, by having control of their own infrastructure, they can control the standard of quality. Pass that to two different counties, and some of the differences between how the counties are managed will start to affect Disney's business. Image part of the park losing power due to one county deferring maintenance on their power grid, etc. Part of the "magic" of Disney is that they get to control the experience from road maintenance to providing power to the park. Now that control will move to the counties with no guarantee that they will continue to provide that infrastructure to the same standard as Disney currently does.
  - colburnmh 5y ago
    Apparently the RCID has $2 billion in bonds, which would result in ~$2,200 levy on the residents of Osceola and Orange counties. Further, the RCID district operates at a loss, but that is offset by Disney's profit from the park. Now those losses will become the taxpayer's problem, and Disney will get to pocket the profit. It's also not clear whether the counties are actually able to operate Disney's power, water, EMS, and other services without significant training and additional expenses, given that infrastructure may not conform to what the counties currently operate, or may not conform to their regulatory requirements. It's important to understand that the Reedy Creek Improvement District (RCID) was established, in part, to ease the logistical and bureaucratic issues that Disney would have to deal with working with two different counties. If the RCID is dissolved, most everything that has infrastructure, legal, or regulatory requirements would have to be handled by both counties, in order to allow the park to have a set of consistent rules and services. (Imagine that Disney could serve alcohol in one half of the park, but not the other, because a liquor license was granted by one county, but not the other. Admittedly, if that were the case, then Disney wouldn't serve alcohol at all, but it illustrates the point.)
    - beerandt 5y ago
      The district has tax revenue that (to oversimplify) will now be replaced with the regular county taxes, which makes it more or less revenue neutral. You say "handled by the county" as if it's a burden, but that's literally the purpose of government. The real burden is now on Disney, who has to demonstrate to the governing body that any given desired improvement is worthwhile to be approved. Part of that is usually the "developer" contributing to the project cost. Everyone is focusing on the money, but this is really about the ability to bypass government control. Which is why Disney was so insistent on bearing these costs in the first place.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
themadturk 5y ago
> Floridians said, ‘You are a guest. Maybe you don’t deserve the special privileges anymore.’” I think a company that owns land and has contributed billions to the local economy over the past 50+ years is something more than a "guest." Unless, of course, all those retirees and children and grandchildren of Cuban refugees are also merely "guests."
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  Because they've owned land for a while they should have privileges no one else has? Imo the concept of carving out exceptions to the law for a single megacorp is troubling
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    It doesn't really look so much like a privilege as it does just a special arrangement for a special case. Disney basically just controls its own county. The local government (that they control) collects the property taxes from Disney and then uses those taxes to build and maintain the roads, sewer, utilities and services like police and fire. The surrounding counties will now be able to get that property tax money, but at the same time they are now responsible for maintaining everything. The question is whether the surrounding counties can do that for the same cost that the Disney local government did.
  - themadturk 5y ago
    I was actually responding to the statement that "they're guests." Do Florida officials consider every out-of-stater who comes in and buys land a "guest"? I'm not disagreeing with the troubling nature of carving out exceptions...but the state's attitude is also troubling (to say the least).
- dTal 5y ago
  Strange to compare a globe sprawling megacorporation with a refugee child.
evolve2k 5y ago
> Reedy Creek, as a special district, has no representatives in the state legislature. What’s the democratic impact here for residents? Could this mean in future local residents gain back a vote and representation that until now they have been beholden to Disneys take on local governance decisions?
- pyuser583 5y ago
  But there are no people, only Disney. It’s like how the City of London allows corporations to vote. It doesn’t have any residents, so the companies doing business there vote on candidates. Except because America doesn’t allow corporations to vote, there will be two counties with no electors. I have no idea how that will work. I’m not saying the Reedy Creek arrangement is ideal. The alternative is probably direct government by the State.
- gonesilent 5y ago
  it's 50 hand selected Disney residents.
euroderf 5y ago
Disney should close for the summer. Let Florida know how their economy actually works. Disney would eat the cost of a summer closure as a cost of doing business. And not incidentally, Dems have been in bed with Disney for ages, dragging out copyright ad infinitum, so why do they not line up behind Disney to make a big issue out of this nonsensical demagogic bullying ? Isn't Disney sort of the definition of "family-friendly" ?
- dTal 5y ago
  Empty threat. What's Disney gonna do, shut it down forever? Move the entire kit and caboodle to a different state?
- infamouscow 5y ago
  Disney has to justify that to the shareholders. Good luck.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwawaymanbot 5y ago
  - euroderf 5y ago
    Over the long term, megalomaniac creeps like DeSantis are gonna screw Disney over. Better to punch back ASAP, IMHO. Hit'em where it hurts - in the pocketbook of the state economy.
- cato_the_elder 5y ago
  > Disney should close for the summer. This proposal is much more closer to nonsensical than what Florida is doing, and there's no way it's going to happen. Wanna take a bet?
- 8note 5y ago
  It sounds like they should spend a lot of money via debts on park improvements, since that'll be moved onto the counties as soon as the district is gone
uf00lme 5y ago
How long to we now see Disneyland+ in Meta coming soon…
infamouscow 5y ago
If I was a shareholder, I would demand Disney's CEO resign for failing to uphold their fiduciary obligation.
mountainriver 5y ago
Disney: $75.2 billion annual economic impact for Central Florida. 463,000 jobs. $5.8 billion in additional state tax revenue. I thought Republicans were pro business? I guess not if it means talking about gay stuff
tomohawk 5y ago
This is what happens when companies decide to get involved in social engineering instead of providing value to their customers. Picking partisan political battles is sure to piss off at least 30% of the people out there. Can Disney afford that? Disney had a privileged position for a long time, and in abusing that privilege has lost it.
- subsection1h 5y ago

25 points by donsupreme 5y ago

Go for it! Let Disney transfer all of their ex-governmental issues and responsibilities to the local municipalities or the state/county governments. Let the taxpayers take over bond repayment/interest. Or, go nuclear and pull the plug. The stuff's 40-50 years old so it's been depreciated.

DamnYuppie 5y ago
I am not sure I follow this reasoning. I have two questions first what bonds would tax payers be on the hook for? Second exactly where would Disney pull up and go to if they left Orlando? I ask as it was challenging for them to buy up all that land way back in the 60's, they had to be very circumspect about doing it to avoid making the land prices sky rocket. As of today where can they buy that much land now and then rebuild the entire infrastructure of a Disney world? Keeping in mind that it would have to be somewhere warm and sunny most of the year so you are looking at CA, TX, and FL as the most likely contenders.
- mkdirpepper 5y ago
  Austin
  - jleyank 5y ago
    Or, they throw their weight behind breaking the Cuban Embargo and aim for Disney Havana.
    - jleyank 5y ago
      It’s a semi humorous undercurrent here that Canadians should go to Cuba before the yanks can go there..
  - colburnmh 5y ago
    TX is only ~15 minutes behind FL in terms of fascist legislative agendas. Moving from FL to TX would just be moving into the same environment. They would probably want to go somewhere that would have at least a chance of being an actual welcoming and productive environment for them.
- jleyank 5y ago
  I'm sure Disney is as good with financial modeling as any Wall Street firm. If they have responsibilities for things like water/sewer because they were an extra-governmental region, why would they not try to drop them like a stone if this was removed? Private companies aren't responsible for water, sewer, fire, police, ... all of the things needed to keep the peace. It's not like private companies are nice, friendly things, and The Mouse has been more company-like than most. Also, they have to do a determination on stay/go. Do they put more $$ into Florida or not? Is there a marketing risk operating there vs. not? Is there a business risk mucking about with theme parks or are they a 20th century phenomenon. Is expansion in the US the way to go or outside the US (Hard Rock Cafe voted for the latter a decade or more ago)? Which customer base has more disposable income that can be siphoned into the Mouse's pocket? If their tax position changes, the financial benefit changes. Given the push for unionization that is occurring (Starbucks, Amazon), it might not be worth pissing around with lots of (formerly) cheap labour. If their bonds or bottom-line is significantly affected by such a change, they'll have to act quickly to avoid Netflix-like damage. Or, all of this is BS, they hunker down and hope it passes in a year or two. However, it's been building up for 5-10 so far so that's probably naive. They can try funding the opposition, but that presupposes that there is a viable opposition in Florida. Disney Orlando requires tourism going to Florida to generate revenue, so they're damaged by stuff outside their control - people can get their mouse fix anywhere. And if the current Florida administration wins, the next round will be worse. So, unless Disney really goes along with what's going down, they're in an unenviable position. Losing control of the marketing and ending up as Hillbilly Heaven would hurt them bad outside the US.
  - colburnmh 5y ago
    Because, unlike most businesses, Disney's park straddles two different counties (Orange and Osceola). Therefore, they have to deal with two different counties to get anything done in a consistent fashion. Further, by having control of their own infrastructure, they can control the standard of quality. Pass that to two different counties, and some of the differences between how the counties are managed will start to affect Disney's business. Image part of the park losing power due to one county deferring maintenance on their power grid, etc. Part of the "magic" of Disney is that they get to control the experience from road maintenance to providing power to the park. Now that control will move to the counties with no guarantee that they will continue to provide that infrastructure to the same standard as Disney currently does.
- colburnmh 5y ago
  Apparently the RCID has $2 billion in bonds, which would result in ~$2,200 levy on the residents of Osceola and Orange counties. Further, the RCID district operates at a loss, but that is offset by Disney's profit from the park. Now those losses will become the taxpayer's problem, and Disney will get to pocket the profit. It's also not clear whether the counties are actually able to operate Disney's power, water, EMS, and other services without significant training and additional expenses, given that infrastructure may not conform to what the counties currently operate, or may not conform to their regulatory requirements. It's important to understand that the Reedy Creek Improvement District (RCID) was established, in part, to ease the logistical and bureaucratic issues that Disney would have to deal with working with two different counties. If the RCID is dissolved, most everything that has infrastructure, legal, or regulatory requirements would have to be handled by both counties, in order to allow the park to have a set of consistent rules and services. (Imagine that Disney could serve alcohol in one half of the park, but not the other, because a liquor license was granted by one county, but not the other. Admittedly, if that were the case, then Disney wouldn't serve alcohol at all, but it illustrates the point.)
  - beerandt 5y ago
    The district has tax revenue that (to oversimplify) will now be replaced with the regular county taxes, which makes it more or less revenue neutral. You say "handled by the county" as if it's a burden, but that's literally the purpose of government. The real burden is now on Disney, who has to demonstrate to the governing body that any given desired improvement is worthwhile to be approved. Part of that is usually the "developer" contributing to the project cost. Everyone is focusing on the money, but this is really about the ability to bypass government control. Which is why Disney was so insistent on bearing these costs in the first place.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

themadturk 5y ago

> Floridians said, ‘You are a guest. Maybe you don’t deserve the special privileges anymore.’” I think a company that owns land and has contributed billions to the local economy over the past 50+ years is something more than a "guest." Unless, of course, all those retirees and children and grandchildren of Cuban refugees are also merely "guests."

mardifoufs 5y ago
Because they've owned land for a while they should have privileges no one else has? Imo the concept of carving out exceptions to the law for a single megacorp is troubling
- jjeaff 5y ago
  It doesn't really look so much like a privilege as it does just a special arrangement for a special case. Disney basically just controls its own county. The local government (that they control) collects the property taxes from Disney and then uses those taxes to build and maintain the roads, sewer, utilities and services like police and fire. The surrounding counties will now be able to get that property tax money, but at the same time they are now responsible for maintaining everything. The question is whether the surrounding counties can do that for the same cost that the Disney local government did.
- themadturk 5y ago
  I was actually responding to the statement that "they're guests." Do Florida officials consider every out-of-stater who comes in and buys land a "guest"? I'm not disagreeing with the troubling nature of carving out exceptions...but the state's attitude is also troubling (to say the least).
dTal 5y ago
Strange to compare a globe sprawling megacorporation with a refugee child.

evolve2k 5y ago

> Reedy Creek, as a special district, has no representatives in the state legislature. What’s the democratic impact here for residents? Could this mean in future local residents gain back a vote and representation that until now they have been beholden to Disneys take on local governance decisions?

pyuser583 5y ago
But there are no people, only Disney. It’s like how the City of London allows corporations to vote. It doesn’t have any residents, so the companies doing business there vote on candidates. Except because America doesn’t allow corporations to vote, there will be two counties with no electors. I have no idea how that will work. I’m not saying the Reedy Creek arrangement is ideal. The alternative is probably direct government by the State.
gonesilent 5y ago
it's 50 hand selected Disney residents.

euroderf 5y ago

Disney should close for the summer. Let Florida know how their economy actually works. Disney would eat the cost of a summer closure as a cost of doing business. And not incidentally, Dems have been in bed with Disney for ages, dragging out copyright ad infinitum, so why do they not line up behind Disney to make a big issue out of this nonsensical demagogic bullying ? Isn't Disney sort of the definition of "family-friendly" ?

dTal 5y ago
Empty threat. What's Disney gonna do, shut it down forever? Move the entire kit and caboodle to a different state?
infamouscow 5y ago
Disney has to justify that to the shareholders. Good luck.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaymanbot 5y ago
- euroderf 5y ago
  Over the long term, megalomaniac creeps like DeSantis are gonna screw Disney over. Better to punch back ASAP, IMHO. Hit'em where it hurts - in the pocketbook of the state economy.
cato_the_elder 5y ago
> Disney should close for the summer. This proposal is much more closer to nonsensical than what Florida is doing, and there's no way it's going to happen. Wanna take a bet?
8note 5y ago
It sounds like they should spend a lot of money via debts on park improvements, since that'll be moved onto the counties as soon as the district is gone

uf00lme 5y ago

How long to we now see Disneyland+ in Meta coming soon…

infamouscow 5y ago

If I was a shareholder, I would demand Disney's CEO resign for failing to uphold their fiduciary obligation.

mountainriver 5y ago

Disney: $75.2 billion annual economic impact for Central Florida. 463,000 jobs. $5.8 billion in additional state tax revenue. I thought Republicans were pro business? I guess not if it means talking about gay stuff

tomohawk 5y ago

This is what happens when companies decide to get involved in social engineering instead of providing value to their customers. Picking partisan political battles is sure to piss off at least 30% of the people out there. Can Disney afford that? Disney had a privileged position for a long time, and in abusing that privilege has lost it.

subsection1h 5y ago