4 ms·

While I do agree that e-waste is a real problem, it’s not like we can just sit with old tech and say “nah, that’s good enough.” We need both more and better fab

While I do agree that e-waste is a real problem, it’s not like we can just sit with old tech and say “nah, that’s good enough.” We need both more and better fabs, and better waste handling / recycling.

beamatronic 4y ago
Maybe a certain level of tech IS good enough. A better world for people means education and healthcare, not a 1mm slimmer disposable phone.
- peanuty1 4y ago
  Newer chips are also more energy efficient (at least, at the same level of performance).
  - beamatronic 4y ago
    Isn’t a recyclable, user-replaceable battery better for the environment in the long run?
  - KSteffensen 4y ago
    Does that improved energy efficiency outweigh the energy costs of replacing perfectly capable existing chips?
- TrevorJ 4y ago
  A phone from 3 years ago, running software from 4 years ago would be as fast as anyone would reasonably need, but it gets obsoleted via software bloat. More frameworks, more layers of abstraction and no confining force that forces anyone to write software that isn't a bloated mess.
inetknght 4y ago
> it’s not like we can just sit with old tech and say “nah, that’s good enough.” But, why not?
- potta_coffee 4y ago
  I'm of the opinion that what we have is good enough. What we need are consumer devices that are not made with planned obsolescence in mind. I have perfectly viable devices that are sitting around that I don't want to throw in a landfill, that are deprecated purely because of software changes. It's clear when we can afford to toss all of our ram / compute at running Electron applications.
  - inetknght 4y ago
    I completely agree with you.
- btgeekboy 4y ago
  Remember when someone famously said 640kb of memory ought to be enough for anybody? Imagine if video games' audio/video just stopped improving past the SNES. Imagine if we decided that 56k dialup was good enough. Imagine if we stopped improving cell phone cameras past the iPhone 3G. These things seem pretty low quality now because we've incrementally built so many better things in the interim. The unleaded gasoline of today is going to be as absurd as the leaded gasoline of yesterday within many our lifetimes. But we can't make big leaps without the interim nudges forward - the N64, the DOCSIS cable modem, modern phone cameras, hybrid vehicles. To do those, we need better microchips. We also need more of them. Just because the richest areas of the world have theirs doesn't mean the less-well-off areas need to be shut out because they didn't get in on time.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    >Remember when someone famously said 640kb of memory ought to be enough for anybody No because that is a made up quote.
  - Beldin 4y ago
    > Imagine if... As someone whose daily drivers consist of decade-old flagship hardware, I don't need to. Outside software support, the main downside of my phone is battery. Maybe I should get a new one - it's from an era where these were still user-replaceable. My similarly aged laptop? Same thing. I could upgrade the hardware; the small increase in compute power isn't worth the reduction in connectivity (ports) though. Sure, some will have specific needs. But for the vast majority that doesn't need a 96 GB desktop or a 10K screen, flagship HW from 10 years ago is more than good enough. Just as for your examples where we need better chips: that was true 30 years ago. Nowadays, a smaller nanometer scale than the last 2 cycles probably matters far less than a better chip design for most use cases.

beamatronic 4y ago

Maybe a certain level of tech IS good enough. A better world for people means education and healthcare, not a 1mm slimmer disposable phone.

peanuty1 4y ago
Newer chips are also more energy efficient (at least, at the same level of performance).
- beamatronic 4y ago
  Isn’t a recyclable, user-replaceable battery better for the environment in the long run?
- KSteffensen 4y ago
  Does that improved energy efficiency outweigh the energy costs of replacing perfectly capable existing chips?
TrevorJ 4y ago
A phone from 3 years ago, running software from 4 years ago would be as fast as anyone would reasonably need, but it gets obsoleted via software bloat. More frameworks, more layers of abstraction and no confining force that forces anyone to write software that isn't a bloated mess.

inetknght 4y ago

> it’s not like we can just sit with old tech and say “nah, that’s good enough.” But, why not?

potta_coffee 4y ago
I'm of the opinion that what we have is good enough. What we need are consumer devices that are not made with planned obsolescence in mind. I have perfectly viable devices that are sitting around that I don't want to throw in a landfill, that are deprecated purely because of software changes. It's clear when we can afford to toss all of our ram / compute at running Electron applications.
- inetknght 4y ago
  I completely agree with you.
btgeekboy 4y ago
Remember when someone famously said 640kb of memory ought to be enough for anybody? Imagine if video games' audio/video just stopped improving past the SNES. Imagine if we decided that 56k dialup was good enough. Imagine if we stopped improving cell phone cameras past the iPhone 3G. These things seem pretty low quality now because we've incrementally built so many better things in the interim. The unleaded gasoline of today is going to be as absurd as the leaded gasoline of yesterday within many our lifetimes. But we can't make big leaps without the interim nudges forward - the N64, the DOCSIS cable modem, modern phone cameras, hybrid vehicles. To do those, we need better microchips. We also need more of them. Just because the richest areas of the world have theirs doesn't mean the less-well-off areas need to be shut out because they didn't get in on time.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  >Remember when someone famously said 640kb of memory ought to be enough for anybody No because that is a made up quote.
- Beldin 4y ago
  > Imagine if... As someone whose daily drivers consist of decade-old flagship hardware, I don't need to. Outside software support, the main downside of my phone is battery. Maybe I should get a new one - it's from an era where these were still user-replaceable. My similarly aged laptop? Same thing. I could upgrade the hardware; the small increase in compute power isn't worth the reduction in connectivity (ports) though. Sure, some will have specific needs. But for the vast majority that doesn't need a 96 GB desktop or a 10K screen, flagship HW from 10 years ago is more than good enough. Just as for your examples where we need better chips: that was true 30 years ago. Nowadays, a smaller nanometer scale than the last 2 cycles probably matters far less than a better chip design for most use cases.