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> The judge said Apple had "obliged the consumer to purchase a second product of its exclusive manufacture," This take is baffling to me. While I don't necessa

> The judge said Apple had "obliged the consumer to purchase a second product of its exclusive manufacture," This take is baffling to me. While I don't necessarily agree with Apple's decision to take the charger out and change to USB-C at the same time, this is an awful take. First of all there's a million and 1 USB-C chargers from many different manufactures. Second, USB-A to C adapters exist. Third, there are 3rd party manufacturers of USB-A to Lightning cables. I'm confused how anyone could believe Apple is the exclusive manufacturer of anything required for an IPhone but the phone.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
"there's a million and 1 USB-C chargers from many different manufactures" How many of these are compliant with specs? How would you know? If you fry your $1000 iPhone due to choosing incorrectly, will Apple refund you?
- egwor 4y ago
  See joshvm’s reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31112241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31112241
  - rahimnathwani 4y ago
    MFi doesn't cover USB-C chargers: https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html If MFi did cover chargers, the iPhone warranty conditions would then be forcing you to buy a charger that is made by either Apple, or a company that's paying fees to Apple.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  I love how in one hand HackerNews is gushing over how the EU might perhaps be planning to mandate USB-C ports in iPhones for the 50th time, and on the other hand HackerNews wants to live in a world where Apple users have to be compensated for only being able to use Apple chargers for their standard USB-C ports. This story is not about standards or chargers, it can be shortened to Hurr durr Apple bad LOL amirite!
philliphaydon 4y ago
I bought an iPhone 13 pro max and I can only use the cable on my computer because I don’t have a usb c wall wart. I use the existing usb a lighting cables everywhere. I hate that wall warts no longer ship with phones.
- changoplatanero 4y ago
  Why not just buy a wall wart for yourself then?
  - tehbeard 4y ago
    Why didn't it come with the phone?
    - oh_sigh 4y ago
      Because almost all people have more wall warts and cables than phones. Would it make you happier if there was a boxed version without a wall wart, and a boxed version with a wall wart for $20 more? Or you could just buy a $20 wall wart and cable...
      - adoxyz 4y ago
        How about dropping the price $20 if it's not included... Apple removed something that was and has been standard for over a decade and kept the price tag. If they're really doing it fOr ThE enVirONmeNt, shouldn't they also drop the price accordingly?
        oh_sigh 4y ago
        ...no? How does paying $1000 or $980 affect the environment? And they didn't "keep the price tag", because they're selling a completely different product than they were a decade ago. And regardless, they're allowed to set the price as whatever they want, for whatever reason. I feel like complaints about this is just a psych study in loss aversion.
progbits 4y ago
> I'm confused how anyone could believe Apple is the exclusive manufacturer of anything required for an IPhone but the phone. I wonder if it could be all the years of using proprietary connectors for everything? Can't feel any sympathy if they finally switch to USBC (only after being forced to by legislation) and people not realizing...
- gwoplock 4y ago
  Outside of mac magsafe chargers, I can't think of an Apple device without a <connector>-to-USB-x cable in the box.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Has there ever been an iPhone that did not use a USB charging cable?
NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
I don't know anything at all about the Brazilian courts system, but if it's possible, I rather expect Apple to appeal this and win if the basis of the decision is really tied-sales.
Broken_Hippo 4y ago
Imagine you are young, and you've went out to buy your first phone only to find out that you can't actually use it without buying a second thing. I'm going to guess that apple's products warn about the danger in using non-apple products - risks of damage and all that. Not wanting to ruin your new, expensive phone, you play it safe and just buy the matching charger, even though you feel like you should have been able to use the phone with everything that was in the box. For some years, Apple has warned about the dangers of third party accessories possibly ruining your stuff, after all. And I'm guessing the apple store employees aren't exactly going to recommend you buy other brand's stuff.
- joshvm 4y ago
  > I'm going to guess that apple's products warn about the danger in using non-apple products - risks of damage and all that. Not that anyone checks this (and the UX isn't great because you can't see category listings directly), but Apple has a searchable database to see if your charger or whatever is approved: https://mfi.apple.com/account/accessory-search https://mfi.apple.com/account/accessory-search
  - rahimnathwani 4y ago
    MFi doesn't apply to USB or USB-C chargers. See the first section of the FAQ: https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html
    - joshvm 4y ago
      Yeah it doesn't seem to be comprehensive. There are certainly USB-C chargers in the database, but maybe only the ones that are also sold with lightning cables?
      - rahimnathwani 4y ago
        > but maybe only the ones that are also sold with lightning cables Correct.
- 4y ago
sidewndr46 4y ago
Perhaps it reflects my upbringing, but my general assumption is any product requires some unadvertised secondary purchase to function unless I can prove otherwise. Those items usually have much higher profit margins and thus businesses are motivated to use this 'model' where the original product is not fully functional without a secondary purchase.
- inetknght 4y ago
  > Perhaps it reflects my upbringing, but my general assumption is any product requires some unadvertised secondary purchase to function unless I can prove otherwise. Perhaps it is your upbringing indeed. My own upbringing, however, suggests that all things should work out-of-the-box but perhaps with "minimal functionality". For example, your computer should work great out-of-the-box but you can install additional hardware and/or software to do more.
paxys 4y ago
Apple is not going to honor your warranty if you use a bad third party charging cable and it damages your device, so yes you are restricted to their exclusive one.
cobbal 4y ago
Baffles me too. By the same logic, Apple should not be able to sell phone cases without including a free phone in them.

rahimnathwani 4y ago

"there's a million and 1 USB-C chargers from many different manufactures" How many of these are compliant with specs? How would you know? If you fry your $1000 iPhone due to choosing incorrectly, will Apple refund you?

egwor 4y ago
See joshvm’s reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31112241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31112241
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  MFi doesn't cover USB-C chargers: https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html If MFi did cover chargers, the iPhone warranty conditions would then be forcing you to buy a charger that is made by either Apple, or a company that's paying fees to Apple.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tinus_hn 4y ago
I love how in one hand HackerNews is gushing over how the EU might perhaps be planning to mandate USB-C ports in iPhones for the 50th time, and on the other hand HackerNews wants to live in a world where Apple users have to be compensated for only being able to use Apple chargers for their standard USB-C ports. This story is not about standards or chargers, it can be shortened to Hurr durr Apple bad LOL amirite!

philliphaydon 4y ago

I bought an iPhone 13 pro max and I can only use the cable on my computer because I don’t have a usb c wall wart. I use the existing usb a lighting cables everywhere. I hate that wall warts no longer ship with phones.

changoplatanero 4y ago
Why not just buy a wall wart for yourself then?
- tehbeard 4y ago
  Why didn't it come with the phone?
  - oh_sigh 4y ago
    Because almost all people have more wall warts and cables than phones. Would it make you happier if there was a boxed version without a wall wart, and a boxed version with a wall wart for $20 more? Or you could just buy a $20 wall wart and cable...
    - adoxyz 4y ago
      How about dropping the price $20 if it's not included... Apple removed something that was and has been standard for over a decade and kept the price tag. If they're really doing it fOr ThE enVirONmeNt, shouldn't they also drop the price accordingly?
      - oh_sigh 4y ago
        ...no? How does paying $1000 or $980 affect the environment? And they didn't "keep the price tag", because they're selling a completely different product than they were a decade ago. And regardless, they're allowed to set the price as whatever they want, for whatever reason. I feel like complaints about this is just a psych study in loss aversion.

progbits 4y ago

> I'm confused how anyone could believe Apple is the exclusive manufacturer of anything required for an IPhone but the phone. I wonder if it could be all the years of using proprietary connectors for everything? Can't feel any sympathy if they finally switch to USBC (only after being forced to by legislation) and people not realizing...

gwoplock 4y ago
Outside of mac magsafe chargers, I can't think of an Apple device without a <connector>-to-USB-x cable in the box.
rootusrootus 4y ago
Has there ever been an iPhone that did not use a USB charging cable?

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago

I don't know anything at all about the Brazilian courts system, but if it's possible, I rather expect Apple to appeal this and win if the basis of the decision is really tied-sales.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago

Imagine you are young, and you've went out to buy your first phone only to find out that you can't actually use it without buying a second thing. I'm going to guess that apple's products warn about the danger in using non-apple products - risks of damage and all that. Not wanting to ruin your new, expensive phone, you play it safe and just buy the matching charger, even though you feel like you should have been able to use the phone with everything that was in the box. For some years, Apple has warned about the dangers of third party accessories possibly ruining your stuff, after all. And I'm guessing the apple store employees aren't exactly going to recommend you buy other brand's stuff.

joshvm 4y ago
> I'm going to guess that apple's products warn about the danger in using non-apple products - risks of damage and all that. Not that anyone checks this (and the UX isn't great because you can't see category listings directly), but Apple has a searchable database to see if your charger or whatever is approved: https://mfi.apple.com/account/accessory-search https://mfi.apple.com/account/accessory-search
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  MFi doesn't apply to USB or USB-C chargers. See the first section of the FAQ: https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html https://mfi.apple.com/en/faqs.html
  - joshvm 4y ago
    Yeah it doesn't seem to be comprehensive. There are certainly USB-C chargers in the database, but maybe only the ones that are also sold with lightning cables?
    - rahimnathwani 4y ago
      > but maybe only the ones that are also sold with lightning cables Correct.
4y ago

sidewndr46 4y ago

Perhaps it reflects my upbringing, but my general assumption is any product requires some unadvertised secondary purchase to function unless I can prove otherwise. Those items usually have much higher profit margins and thus businesses are motivated to use this 'model' where the original product is not fully functional without a secondary purchase.

inetknght 4y ago
> Perhaps it reflects my upbringing, but my general assumption is any product requires some unadvertised secondary purchase to function unless I can prove otherwise. Perhaps it is your upbringing indeed. My own upbringing, however, suggests that all things should work out-of-the-box but perhaps with "minimal functionality". For example, your computer should work great out-of-the-box but you can install additional hardware and/or software to do more.

paxys 4y ago

Apple is not going to honor your warranty if you use a bad third party charging cable and it damages your device, so yes you are restricted to their exclusive one.

cobbal 4y ago

Baffles me too. By the same logic, Apple should not be able to sell phone cases without including a free phone in them.