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He sold that over two months and the overall market was much stronger then. Also those sales were pretty much required for taxes and thus did not send a negativ

He sold that over two months and the overall market was much stronger then. Also those sales were pretty much required for taxes and thus did not send a negative signal to the market. If he sells large amounts of tsla shares to buy twitter, this will be a negative signal -- any other tesla shareholder can sell tesla shares to buy twitter, and why wouldn't they when the tesla CEO is doing it. It is still possible that he tries to raise 21 billion by selling stock but I doubt it. First if he actually wanted to do that, he would keep quiet while selling and then come out with the tender offer when he had the cash.

dgfitz 5y ago
I don’t think it’s possible for him to quietly sell 21B shares. That’s all very public information isn’t it?
- hristov 5y ago
  It is possible. He has to file certain forms when he sells but the SEC often lets large buyers and sellers have a bit of a delay when making these forms public to avoid front running.
Pyxl101 5y ago
Can’t he borrow against his Tesla stock, and other assets including his ownership of SpaceX, and personal property, for cash to buy Twitter? Depending on his banking relationships, and other assets that he can use as collateral for the loan, he might be able to borrow a fairly high percentage of the current value of those assets as cash (maybe 50 to 70 or 80% or more if the collateral assets are diversified or the bank simply has high confidence in his effective credit rating or ability to repay — and he may be doing other business with that bank incentivizing them to give him a favorable deal). I’m not a billionaire but by establishing a strong relationship with a bank, have been able to establish a credit line with a limit that is a high percentage of my assets that are invested by the bank in a diversified portfolio, along with other assets, at a low interest rate (mortgage levels - a credit line at approx 2.5% interest of an amount almost equal to my total assets at the bank). I also recently refinanced my house with this bank starting last winter and was able to achieve getting a 15 year fixed mortgage at a 2.125% interest rate - a huge reduction from my previous rate of 3.5% on a 30 year. I now pay less per month and will own my home much sooner, consequently paying considerably less in interest over the remainder of the loan, and building much more wealth in the process. With some wealth and favorable banking relationships you can accomplish things that most ordinary people don’t know about and I myself didn’t know about until I started looking into the possibilities. I am sure a billionaire has access to even more options than I can conceive of.
- weeblewobble 5y ago
  He could, but if TSLA goes down and he gets a margin call things could get ugly
  - mise_en_place 5y ago
    It is risky but keep in mind the proposal in non-binding and contingent upon several other conditions.
- mcintyre1994 5y ago
  Tesla has a rule limiting borrowing against its stock to 25% so that's probably his limiting factor.
  - kjksf 5y ago
    Tesla is not the lender, Musk's broker is. Therefore Tesla has zero input into margin rate broker decides to give Musk.
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      No, Musk has an agreement with tesla that he can only borrow against a quarter of his shares. He's already borrowed against quite a few too. Musk could go to the board to get that number bumped up, but until then he can't just borrow the full $21 billion against his shares.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    Does the rule apply to all shareholders? I don't really see how a publically traded company can put an arbitrary condition on what can be done like that - any borrowing can be a totally private deal between you and a bank (or another private individual) - Tesla isn't even privvy to such deals, so how can they enforce any rules about them?
    - bombcar 5y ago
robonerd 5y ago
> If he sells large amounts of tsla shares to buy twitter, this will be a negative signal Not necessarily. It's conceivable that TSLA shareholders could interpret Elon Musk acquiring more political influence as good for TSLA. The question would be whether Musk can use control of twitter to actually influence politics in favor of his other companies. I don't know if that would actually work, but I think it's conceivable that many of those who own TSLA might believe it will work.
- NoOneNew 5y ago
  You know... I have a feeling you might be the most right in this discussion.
- 111111101101 5y ago
  > It's conceivable that TSLA shareholders could interpret Elon Musk acquiring more political influence as good for TSLA For that they would have to see through Musk's grift. Most retail TSLA holders are Musketeers and they truly believe that he is a visionary genius. To them, fluff like Twitter doesn't matter when they have the real life Tony Stark at the helm.
  - robonerd 5y ago
    Believing Musk is a visionary genius scarcely seems inconsistent with believing Musk owning Twitter will be advantageous for Musk companies.
    - 111111101101 5y ago
      Genius doesn't need publicity. Its influence is inevitable.
      - robonerd 5y ago
        It doesn't seem very genius to fight with one hand tied behind your back just because you can.
      - 5y ago
mrep 5y ago
There stock is up because they just beat earnings [0] and TSLA has 24 billion dollars worth of volume per day [1]. I'm pretty sure he could raise the 21 billion given some time. [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/20/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2022.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/20/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2022.... [1]: https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla
- devoutsalsa 5y ago
  He can always borrow it, too. Tesla is a volatile stock, but if he's not borrowing a huge percentage of his stake, he should be able to use it as collateral. Then he can sell later to pay it off when the timing is right.
  - deckard1 5y ago
    Musk goes to the bank Musk: I can haz money? Bank: You said that Twitter isn't going to be a way to make money. That you "don't care about the economics at all". Your exact words. Musk: ... Bank: ... Musk: Give me money
    - iepathos 5y ago
      Bank: I see your net worth is far beyond what you're asking for and you won't have a problem making payments with your income. I didn't even know credit scores got as high as yours. Here you go.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - mywittyname 5y ago
        Musk's net worth his highly volatile. Telsa is trading at pretty high 200 P/e, one bad quarter could crater the stock price. Space X is private, which carries its own issues. Add to that the risk to these assets if Musk dies. Or hell, even it Musk merely "spooks" investors with his flamboyance. This is a insanely risky vanity project.
spoonjim 5y ago
One advantage of Musk's positioning as a "nutcase" is that him selling Tesla stock to buy Twitter doesn't signal "I believe Twitter is a better investment than Tesla" as much as it signals "Musk is doing Musk stuff"
- xg15 5y ago
  This. He communicated his plan pretty overtly: He made no secret that his buy attempt is mostly for political reasons and that his selloff will be a means to the end of securing funding for the takeover. None of this has anything to do with actual investment decisions. So maybe he hopes to sell his shares to "activist buyers" who want the takeover to succeed and therefore have no interest in dropping the share price. Of course that is assuming any of the purported motives are real and not just an act.
- deckard1 5y ago
  So you're saying TSLA holders don't care that Elon Musk is an unhinged lunatic. Got it. Someone remind me again why this isn't a cult?
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    He is both an unhinged lunatic and the best tech CEO of all time and it’s not even close.
    - tsol 5y ago
      This is closer to the truth, but it's weird how people are so passionate about either loving or hating him.
  - kjksf 5y ago
    As a TSLA holder I care that I've made 20x on my stock. I care it's the best performing stock in the last 5 and 10 years. I care that Tesla is growing revenues at 50%+ over more than a decade, and profits even faster. Which is a better financial performance than Amazon has at similar stage. What I do not care is your editorializing of Musk's character of calling me a cult member. I guess I should be offended but then I take a look at my bank account and it kind of makes me not care about what you think about me or Musk.
trappist 5y ago
> Also those sales were pretty much required for taxes His reason - or at least his public justification - for that sale was to deliberately generate a tax liability. If you recall people were getting pretty bent about him not having such a thing, as a zillionaire.
- tonfa 5y ago
  Yeah that's the story telling but not the reality, most of the sales were to cover taxes due on option exercise (had to do it in 2021 to avoid a tax regime change that was starting in 2022).
- tekknik 5y ago
  > If you recall people were getting pretty bent about him not having such a thing, as a zillionaire. Some people, a minority, from a particular political bend. the overwhelming majority of americans don’t consider his finances at all
wutbrodo 5y ago
> any other tesla shareholder can sell tesla shares to buy twitter, and why wouldn't they when the tesla CEO is doing it. Because they wouldn't be taking control over the company... That's the purpose of those whole situation. Musk isn't just making a play on the basis of thinking "one dollar of TWTR is worth more than one share of TSLA"
philwelch 5y ago
“Any other Tesla shareholder” is less capable of successfully executing a hostile takeover of Twitter, which is why they wouldn’t and Elon would.

dgfitz 5y ago

I don’t think it’s possible for him to quietly sell 21B shares. That’s all very public information isn’t it?

hristov 5y ago
It is possible. He has to file certain forms when he sells but the SEC often lets large buyers and sellers have a bit of a delay when making these forms public to avoid front running.

Pyxl101 5y ago

Can’t he borrow against his Tesla stock, and other assets including his ownership of SpaceX, and personal property, for cash to buy Twitter? Depending on his banking relationships, and other assets that he can use as collateral for the loan, he might be able to borrow a fairly high percentage of the current value of those assets as cash (maybe 50 to 70 or 80% or more if the collateral assets are diversified or the bank simply has high confidence in his effective credit rating or ability to repay — and he may be doing other business with that bank incentivizing them to give him a favorable deal). I’m not a billionaire but by establishing a strong relationship with a bank, have been able to establish a credit line with a limit that is a high percentage of my assets that are invested by the bank in a diversified portfolio, along with other assets, at a low interest rate (mortgage levels - a credit line at approx 2.5% interest of an amount almost equal to my total assets at the bank). I also recently refinanced my house with this bank starting last winter and was able to achieve getting a 15 year fixed mortgage at a 2.125% interest rate - a huge reduction from my previous rate of 3.5% on a 30 year. I now pay less per month and will own my home much sooner, consequently paying considerably less in interest over the remainder of the loan, and building much more wealth in the process. With some wealth and favorable banking relationships you can accomplish things that most ordinary people don’t know about and I myself didn’t know about until I started looking into the possibilities. I am sure a billionaire has access to even more options than I can conceive of.

weeblewobble 5y ago
He could, but if TSLA goes down and he gets a margin call things could get ugly
- mise_en_place 5y ago
  It is risky but keep in mind the proposal in non-binding and contingent upon several other conditions.
mcintyre1994 5y ago
Tesla has a rule limiting borrowing against its stock to 25% so that's probably his limiting factor.
- kjksf 5y ago
  Tesla is not the lender, Musk's broker is. Therefore Tesla has zero input into margin rate broker decides to give Musk.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    No, Musk has an agreement with tesla that he can only borrow against a quarter of his shares. He's already borrowed against quite a few too. Musk could go to the board to get that number bumped up, but until then he can't just borrow the full $21 billion against his shares.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Does the rule apply to all shareholders? I don't really see how a publically traded company can put an arbitrary condition on what can be done like that - any borrowing can be a totally private deal between you and a bank (or another private individual) - Tesla isn't even privvy to such deals, so how can they enforce any rules about them?
  - bombcar 5y ago

robonerd 5y ago

> If he sells large amounts of tsla shares to buy twitter, this will be a negative signal Not necessarily. It's conceivable that TSLA shareholders could interpret Elon Musk acquiring more political influence as good for TSLA. The question would be whether Musk can use control of twitter to actually influence politics in favor of his other companies. I don't know if that would actually work, but I think it's conceivable that many of those who own TSLA might believe it will work.

NoOneNew 5y ago
You know... I have a feeling you might be the most right in this discussion.
111111101101 5y ago
> It's conceivable that TSLA shareholders could interpret Elon Musk acquiring more political influence as good for TSLA For that they would have to see through Musk's grift. Most retail TSLA holders are Musketeers and they truly believe that he is a visionary genius. To them, fluff like Twitter doesn't matter when they have the real life Tony Stark at the helm.
- robonerd 5y ago
  Believing Musk is a visionary genius scarcely seems inconsistent with believing Musk owning Twitter will be advantageous for Musk companies.
  - 111111101101 5y ago
    Genius doesn't need publicity. Its influence is inevitable.
    - robonerd 5y ago
      It doesn't seem very genius to fight with one hand tied behind your back just because you can.
    - 5y ago

mrep 5y ago

There stock is up because they just beat earnings [0] and TSLA has 24 billion dollars worth of volume per day [1]. I'm pretty sure he could raise the 21 billion given some time. [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/20/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2022.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/20/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2022.... [1]: https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla

devoutsalsa 5y ago
He can always borrow it, too. Tesla is a volatile stock, but if he's not borrowing a huge percentage of his stake, he should be able to use it as collateral. Then he can sell later to pay it off when the timing is right.
- deckard1 5y ago
  Musk goes to the bank Musk: I can haz money? Bank: You said that Twitter isn't going to be a way to make money. That you "don't care about the economics at all". Your exact words. Musk: ... Bank: ... Musk: Give me money
  - iepathos 5y ago
    Bank: I see your net worth is far beyond what you're asking for and you won't have a problem making payments with your income. I didn't even know credit scores got as high as yours. Here you go.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - mywittyname 5y ago
      Musk's net worth his highly volatile. Telsa is trading at pretty high 200 P/e, one bad quarter could crater the stock price. Space X is private, which carries its own issues. Add to that the risk to these assets if Musk dies. Or hell, even it Musk merely "spooks" investors with his flamboyance. This is a insanely risky vanity project.

spoonjim 5y ago

One advantage of Musk's positioning as a "nutcase" is that him selling Tesla stock to buy Twitter doesn't signal "I believe Twitter is a better investment than Tesla" as much as it signals "Musk is doing Musk stuff"

xg15 5y ago
This. He communicated his plan pretty overtly: He made no secret that his buy attempt is mostly for political reasons and that his selloff will be a means to the end of securing funding for the takeover. None of this has anything to do with actual investment decisions. So maybe he hopes to sell his shares to "activist buyers" who want the takeover to succeed and therefore have no interest in dropping the share price. Of course that is assuming any of the purported motives are real and not just an act.
deckard1 5y ago
So you're saying TSLA holders don't care that Elon Musk is an unhinged lunatic. Got it. Someone remind me again why this isn't a cult?
- spoonjim 5y ago
  He is both an unhinged lunatic and the best tech CEO of all time and it’s not even close.
  - tsol 5y ago
    This is closer to the truth, but it's weird how people are so passionate about either loving or hating him.
- kjksf 5y ago
  As a TSLA holder I care that I've made 20x on my stock. I care it's the best performing stock in the last 5 and 10 years. I care that Tesla is growing revenues at 50%+ over more than a decade, and profits even faster. Which is a better financial performance than Amazon has at similar stage. What I do not care is your editorializing of Musk's character of calling me a cult member. I guess I should be offended but then I take a look at my bank account and it kind of makes me not care about what you think about me or Musk.

trappist 5y ago

> Also those sales were pretty much required for taxes His reason - or at least his public justification - for that sale was to deliberately generate a tax liability. If you recall people were getting pretty bent about him not having such a thing, as a zillionaire.

tonfa 5y ago
Yeah that's the story telling but not the reality, most of the sales were to cover taxes due on option exercise (had to do it in 2021 to avoid a tax regime change that was starting in 2022).
tekknik 5y ago
> If you recall people were getting pretty bent about him not having such a thing, as a zillionaire. Some people, a minority, from a particular political bend. the overwhelming majority of americans don’t consider his finances at all

wutbrodo 5y ago

> any other tesla shareholder can sell tesla shares to buy twitter, and why wouldn't they when the tesla CEO is doing it. Because they wouldn't be taking control over the company... That's the purpose of those whole situation. Musk isn't just making a play on the basis of thinking "one dollar of TWTR is worth more than one share of TSLA"

philwelch 5y ago

“Any other Tesla shareholder” is less capable of successfully executing a hostile takeover of Twitter, which is why they wouldn’t and Elon would.