3 ms·

80s Junk Bond King (and convicted felon*) Michael Milkin tells this story. He was once talking to an ambitions entrepreneur about funding a buyout with junk, a

by a4isms 5y ago

80s Junk Bond King (and convicted felon*) Michael Milkin tells this story. He was once talking to an ambitions entrepreneur about funding a buyout with junk, and the entrepreneur asked, "This is a lot of money. How do you know I'll replay it?" Milkin says he replied, "Because if you miss even a single payment, I'll call your debt and take not just the company, but every single asset you own." ——— * That would be presidentially pardoned convicted felon Michael Milkin. The rules for "righting injustice through pardons" are very different for the rich than the comfortably well off, much less those living paycheque to paycheque.

kmonsen 5y ago
Pardoned by Trump. We should name and shame each one until this stops.
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >We should name and shame each one until this stops. Why should it stop? Do you not believe in redemption? Milken has done (and continues to do) a lot of great charity work with his fortune. Besides, if you look at what Milken was actually convicted of, it's pretty tame, especially by today's standards. And he spent two years in prison for it. What more do you want?
  - a4isms 5y ago
    I actually like what you're saying, but there is a problem here that is larger than whether it is just that Mr. Milken deserves a pardon. The problem is that justice unequally applied is injustice. So if we are saying, "Everyone convicted of a felony who serves their time and who then rehabilitates themselves should be pardoned," I'm all for it. And in my jurisdiction (Canada), people can apply for Federal pardons, and many receive them. There is a standard way to do it, a standard procedure to follow, and in theory, everyone is treated equally by the system. The injustice comes in if there is a special fast-track for a pardon one gets by hob-nobbing with your fellow wealthy oligarchs, one of whom is elected President and gives you a personal pardon. That's a bad look that suggests that all felons are equal, but some felons are more equal than others. Likewise, I am extremely leery of talking about "doing great charity work." Reputation laundering is my preferred term, and again this is not something available to all citizens. Nobody gives a crap if some felon donates $1,000 to a soup kitchen, but donate $1,000,000 and you get called a "philanthropist." I'm all for charity and doing good works, but I'm not for giving philanthropists anything special in terms of justice that people who can't afford to be philanthropists get. IMO, the answer is not to burn Milken's pardon, it's to pardon more convicted felons who do their time and then turn their backs on whatever criminal acts they used to commit.
    - bombcar 5y ago
      Yeah we need more pardons not less, and we need blanket laws that forbid making hiring, etc decisions based on convictions (AND forbid lawsuits around hiring) more than X years ago. People are afraid to expose themselves to liability for hiring a felon, even if said felony is ages ago, because if something goes wrong everyone will say "well you shouldn't have hired a felon."
      - kmonsen 5y ago
        100% agree with you and the parent, but it should not be at the whim of a governor/president.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    None of which means he deserved a pardon.
  - kmonsen 5y ago
    I believe in redemption, and I think US jail sentences are extremely excessive. That is an issue for voters. I do not believe in random justice where connected people can be pardoned even if they deserve so when there are literally millions in jail who could be as deserving. Sadly important today, pardons can be corrupt. Trump several times promised pardons for people willing to go to jail for him. And he delivered on those pardons. So yes I believe in redemption, but not by executive decree. That belongs in a time when we had kings with real power. Finally, the prison time is often from a plea bargain (I do not like those either but different story). So the time sentenced to does not always have a meaning.

by a4isms 5y ago

kmonsen 5y ago

Pardoned by Trump. We should name and shame each one until this stops.

itsoktocry 5y ago
>We should name and shame each one until this stops. Why should it stop? Do you not believe in redemption? Milken has done (and continues to do) a lot of great charity work with his fortune. Besides, if you look at what Milken was actually convicted of, it's pretty tame, especially by today's standards. And he spent two years in prison for it. What more do you want?
- a4isms 5y ago
  I actually like what you're saying, but there is a problem here that is larger than whether it is just that Mr. Milken deserves a pardon. The problem is that justice unequally applied is injustice. So if we are saying, "Everyone convicted of a felony who serves their time and who then rehabilitates themselves should be pardoned," I'm all for it. And in my jurisdiction (Canada), people can apply for Federal pardons, and many receive them. There is a standard way to do it, a standard procedure to follow, and in theory, everyone is treated equally by the system. The injustice comes in if there is a special fast-track for a pardon one gets by hob-nobbing with your fellow wealthy oligarchs, one of whom is elected President and gives you a personal pardon. That's a bad look that suggests that all felons are equal, but some felons are more equal than others. Likewise, I am extremely leery of talking about "doing great charity work." Reputation laundering is my preferred term, and again this is not something available to all citizens. Nobody gives a crap if some felon donates $1,000 to a soup kitchen, but donate $1,000,000 and you get called a "philanthropist." I'm all for charity and doing good works, but I'm not for giving philanthropists anything special in terms of justice that people who can't afford to be philanthropists get. IMO, the answer is not to burn Milken's pardon, it's to pardon more convicted felons who do their time and then turn their backs on whatever criminal acts they used to commit.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    Yeah we need more pardons not less, and we need blanket laws that forbid making hiring, etc decisions based on convictions (AND forbid lawsuits around hiring) more than X years ago. People are afraid to expose themselves to liability for hiring a felon, even if said felony is ages ago, because if something goes wrong everyone will say "well you shouldn't have hired a felon."
    - kmonsen 5y ago
      100% agree with you and the parent, but it should not be at the whim of a governor/president.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  None of which means he deserved a pardon.
- kmonsen 5y ago
  I believe in redemption, and I think US jail sentences are extremely excessive. That is an issue for voters. I do not believe in random justice where connected people can be pardoned even if they deserve so when there are literally millions in jail who could be as deserving. Sadly important today, pardons can be corrupt. Trump several times promised pardons for people willing to go to jail for him. And he delivered on those pardons. So yes I believe in redemption, but not by executive decree. That belongs in a time when we had kings with real power. Finally, the prison time is often from a plea bargain (I do not like those either but different story). So the time sentenced to does not always have a meaning.