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If your card is stolen and you become a victim of fraud, and they manage to take money from your account, and your bank already knows its fraud, there's no urge

by vasco 5y ago

If your card is stolen and you become a victim of fraud, and they manage to take money from your account, and your bank already knows its fraud, there's no urgency on your end. You'll get your money back. I'd go as far as saying that if the bank genuinely wants you to decide fast, it's not to protect you. It's to protect itself. Shenanigans about "do it fast or they'll take more" are bullshit always. The bank is on the hook, not you. So never do things in a rush, take your time to verify yourself that money indeed disappeared. There. is. no. urgency. Sense of urgency is one of the best ways to make people do bad decisions. Salespeople use it, scammers use it. Nobody who is trying to be helpful will come with a story "that needs to be fixed now!!!". If you still want to be safe, and you use a debit card, have 2 accounts. One with the bulk of your money without a card associated with it. One with the card associated with it and no more than whatever you spend in a week. If you use a credit card, it totally doesn't matter, it's the banks money, not yours that they'd steal. So whenever you find yourself in a situation where someone wants you to decide something fast that you didn't know about and isn't a direct threat to your life, don't do it. Think about it first. It's impossible to keep up with all the scams, but if you stop to think and never take rash decisions you don't have to. Slow is safe.

skeeter2020 5y ago
I'm well aware of the (lack of true) financial implications but I still get the urgency and need to speed up because of the violation and shock that someone is impersonating me RIGHT NOW! It feels similar to a physical threat, or enough so that our bodies react the same way. It is really hard to develop control unless you're exposed to this situation, so I like your strict yet general rule to (a) classify the situation, (b) slow down. Even enough time for 10 deep breaths is likely enough to get you centered and thinking clearly.
toraway1234 5y ago
kube-system 5y ago
Yep. In the US, you are not liable for any fraudulent transactions reported within 60 days. You can easily wait until you get your next statement.
- Zircom 5y ago
  That's assuming the bank actually finds the transaction(s) were fraudulent when they do their "investigation". If they disagree with you and decide it wasn't fraudulent for whatever reason it's quite often a giant pain to argue with them and get it sorted out.
  - mannykannot 5y ago
    There was a relatively recent case of Bank of America deciding eight months later that it wasn't a fraud and clawing back their provisional refund. It turns out that the original card was intercepted in the mail and they simply issued a duplicate without preventing the use of the first, but it took the victim's attorneys to get the evidence from the bank, connect the dots and figure out this happened.
    - jasinjames 5y ago
      I'd love to read about this. Could you link an article?
      - mannykannot 5y ago
        https://www.nj.com/news/2022/03/bank-warns-customer-of-1200-in-fraud-charges-then-says-the-purchases-were-valid-huh.html https://www.nj.com/news/2022/03/bank-warns-customer-of-1200-... I got some details wrong; in particular, the initial dispute denial was after two months (with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau agreeing with the bank after another two months), and the resolution followed NJ Advance Media contacting BofA.
  - zeroonetwothree 5y ago
    The burden of proof is on the merchant. If they don’t have a signed receipt or video evidence they probably can’t win (so any online purchases are doomed). I’ve never failed a dispute in around 25 times, including several in the range of $2k+
    - 5y ago
sidewndr46 5y ago
If someone wipes out my bank account and I can't pay any bills, am I liable for those charges? What about the associated late charges? What about when service is terminated to my home? If someone takes money from my account, it is absolutely urgent.
- hawkesnest 5y ago
  This is the primary reason why I stopped using my bank card for anything but the ATM at said bank. A scammer wiping out my checking account is more than an inconvenience, even if the bank only needed a day or so to replenish the account. Now I use a "proper" credit card for anything. If a crook manages to run up a tab on that thing I still have all my cash for whatever scrapes may come along.
manapause 5y ago
I had a friend who had their bank account cleaned out by a wire transfer of 200K in the same week he is trying to close on a house. The bank executed on their promises of no disruption to his transfers; they told him he did not have to worry and the customer service was so terrific, he said he was going to stay with the bank. "Did you ask if there were other accounts at the bank that had been accessed in this way?" "A wire transfer to an international location went through with no red flags and 0 notifications?" "Can you ask your security department to produce a report of their investigation into the matter?" Nobody asks those questions.
jiveturkey 5y ago
> there's no urgency on your end. There is, if you have recurring payments on the same card. If the bank knows there is fraud, some won't honor even known recurring payments. The card may be outright cancelled. If one of those recurring payments is, eg, your Apple icloud or personal gmail/gsuite/gworkplace account, you better hop to with the utmost urgency.

by vasco 5y ago

skeeter2020 5y ago

I'm well aware of the (lack of true) financial implications but I still get the urgency and need to speed up because of the violation and shock that someone is impersonating me RIGHT NOW! It feels similar to a physical threat, or enough so that our bodies react the same way. It is really hard to develop control unless you're exposed to this situation, so I like your strict yet general rule to (a) classify the situation, (b) slow down. Even enough time for 10 deep breaths is likely enough to get you centered and thinking clearly.

toraway1234 5y ago

kube-system 5y ago

Yep. In the US, you are not liable for any fraudulent transactions reported within 60 days. You can easily wait until you get your next statement.

Zircom 5y ago
That's assuming the bank actually finds the transaction(s) were fraudulent when they do their "investigation". If they disagree with you and decide it wasn't fraudulent for whatever reason it's quite often a giant pain to argue with them and get it sorted out.
- mannykannot 5y ago
  There was a relatively recent case of Bank of America deciding eight months later that it wasn't a fraud and clawing back their provisional refund. It turns out that the original card was intercepted in the mail and they simply issued a duplicate without preventing the use of the first, but it took the victim's attorneys to get the evidence from the bank, connect the dots and figure out this happened.
  - jasinjames 5y ago
    I'd love to read about this. Could you link an article?
    - mannykannot 5y ago
      https://www.nj.com/news/2022/03/bank-warns-customer-of-1200-in-fraud-charges-then-says-the-purchases-were-valid-huh.html https://www.nj.com/news/2022/03/bank-warns-customer-of-1200-... I got some details wrong; in particular, the initial dispute denial was after two months (with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau agreeing with the bank after another two months), and the resolution followed NJ Advance Media contacting BofA.
- zeroonetwothree 5y ago
  The burden of proof is on the merchant. If they don’t have a signed receipt or video evidence they probably can’t win (so any online purchases are doomed). I’ve never failed a dispute in around 25 times, including several in the range of $2k+
  - 5y ago

sidewndr46 5y ago

If someone wipes out my bank account and I can't pay any bills, am I liable for those charges? What about the associated late charges? What about when service is terminated to my home? If someone takes money from my account, it is absolutely urgent.

hawkesnest 5y ago
This is the primary reason why I stopped using my bank card for anything but the ATM at said bank. A scammer wiping out my checking account is more than an inconvenience, even if the bank only needed a day or so to replenish the account. Now I use a "proper" credit card for anything. If a crook manages to run up a tab on that thing I still have all my cash for whatever scrapes may come along.

manapause 5y ago

I had a friend who had their bank account cleaned out by a wire transfer of 200K in the same week he is trying to close on a house. The bank executed on their promises of no disruption to his transfers; they told him he did not have to worry and the customer service was so terrific, he said he was going to stay with the bank. "Did you ask if there were other accounts at the bank that had been accessed in this way?" "A wire transfer to an international location went through with no red flags and 0 notifications?" "Can you ask your security department to produce a report of their investigation into the matter?" Nobody asks those questions.

jiveturkey 5y ago

> there's no urgency on your end. There is, if you have recurring payments on the same card. If the bank knows there is fraud, some won't honor even known recurring payments. The card may be outright cancelled. If one of those recurring payments is, eg, your Apple icloud or personal gmail/gsuite/gworkplace account, you better hop to with the utmost urgency.