4 ms·

I call at least partial BS on this claim. In the US, you can't sell as "new" anything that has even a single "used" part in it. That's to protect consumers fr

I call at least partial BS on this claim. In the US, you can't sell as "new" anything that has even a single "used" part in it. That's to protect consumers from, say, buying an electronic vehicle only to find that the battery only has one year left of expected lifetime. So, the rumor certainly isn't true for any mass consumer products, though perhaps if you're making zillion-dollar specialty equipment where each sale is high-touch, you can have the customer acknowledge in writing that the device is being sold as "used", and perhaps even guarantee a replacement for the used part within some amount of time. Of course, if a company wants to use cannibalized washer parts for some internal purpose, that's just fine.

varispeed 4y ago
You are kind of comparing apples to oranges. In most cases a used chip will work just as good as new - and probably be proven more reliable as it has been already tested in a working device. And how do you define "used"? If a module with a chip has been placed in a test harness, is it now used? > and perhaps even guarantee a replacement for the used part within some amount of time. It's called a warranty.
- drfuchs 4y ago
  The definition of "used" is approximately "delivered to a customer". Doesn't even matter if they returned the box unopened, and got a refund; you still can't sell it as "new". And, no, I'm not speaking of a "warranty." A warranty means "we'll fix it if anything breaks over a certain time period, perhaps with a refurbished part". That's different than "we'll replace this particular part with a new one as soon as we can, even if it's still working, to make sure you get the entire expected MTBF (as that's typically much longer than the overall warranty for the whole device)" It's also wrong to think of used chips being as good as new. Yes, you avoid "infant mortality" (though that seems to be less of an issue than it used to be), but how do you know what environment the washing machine was run in? Thermal and power shocks decrease the lifespan, never mind humidity and static electricity. And even if the environment had been perfect, what about electromigration? That's exactly the reason you can't put used parts into a device sold as new. If you still disagree with this regulation, you're best advised to take it up with the FTC rather than blithely choose to ignore it.
  - mechanical_bear 4y ago
    > Doesn't even matter if they returned the box unopened, and got a refund; you still can't sell it as "new". That simply doesn’t track with reality. If I return a good to Target, unopened, it is being put back on the shelf with no indication that it was ever sold previously.
tyingq 4y ago
The statement is pretty vague, so it could be that the chips are destined for some company's assembly line for something like a PLC, rather than in the products themselves.
barbegal 4y ago
> In the US, you can't sell as "new" anything that has even a single "used" part in it. Do you have a source to back up this claim?
- VLM 4y ago
  "citation needed" is an overused debating point that makes the opponent look better, regardless he's obviously talking about 16 CFR § 20.1 specifically subsection (a). Note that its trivial to work around. I purchased a bluetooth earpiece on Monday on amazon and its trivial to control-F around looking for the word "new". You will NOT find that word on any marketing. I don't believe any part of it is reused or recycled, however they're not dumb enough to use the word "new" in writing anywhere.
  - antifa 4y ago
    > "citation needed" is an overused debating point That looked like a genuine request to me. Besides, some things really are questionable at a surface glance, but generally useful if and only if we know for sure they are factually true and the words used are precisely correct.
  - mechanical_bear 4y ago
    GUIDES FOR THE REBUILT, RECONDITIONED AND OTHER USED AUTOMOBILE PARTS INDUSTRY So I looked it up and it’s not really universally relevant. This is why people ask for citations…
VLM 4y ago
"Contains post consumer recycled content because our name brand multinational megacorporation cares about the environment."
jpindar 4y ago
If true, that must depend on some specific definition of 'new', since new auto parts are often built on old cores. That's why they give you cash back for the cores. Maybe there's some fine print somewhere that describes the part as 'remanufactured', but when you ask for a new, say, brake caliper, that's what you'll usually get.
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  For autoparts they are clearly marked as “reman” or rebuilt or remanufactured or something of the like.

varispeed 4y ago

You are kind of comparing apples to oranges. In most cases a used chip will work just as good as new - and probably be proven more reliable as it has been already tested in a working device. And how do you define "used"? If a module with a chip has been placed in a test harness, is it now used? > and perhaps even guarantee a replacement for the used part within some amount of time. It's called a warranty.

drfuchs 4y ago
The definition of "used" is approximately "delivered to a customer". Doesn't even matter if they returned the box unopened, and got a refund; you still can't sell it as "new". And, no, I'm not speaking of a "warranty." A warranty means "we'll fix it if anything breaks over a certain time period, perhaps with a refurbished part". That's different than "we'll replace this particular part with a new one as soon as we can, even if it's still working, to make sure you get the entire expected MTBF (as that's typically much longer than the overall warranty for the whole device)" It's also wrong to think of used chips being as good as new. Yes, you avoid "infant mortality" (though that seems to be less of an issue than it used to be), but how do you know what environment the washing machine was run in? Thermal and power shocks decrease the lifespan, never mind humidity and static electricity. And even if the environment had been perfect, what about electromigration? That's exactly the reason you can't put used parts into a device sold as new. If you still disagree with this regulation, you're best advised to take it up with the FTC rather than blithely choose to ignore it.
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  > Doesn't even matter if they returned the box unopened, and got a refund; you still can't sell it as "new". That simply doesn’t track with reality. If I return a good to Target, unopened, it is being put back on the shelf with no indication that it was ever sold previously.

tyingq 4y ago

The statement is pretty vague, so it could be that the chips are destined for some company's assembly line for something like a PLC, rather than in the products themselves.

barbegal 4y ago

> In the US, you can't sell as "new" anything that has even a single "used" part in it. Do you have a source to back up this claim?

VLM 4y ago
"citation needed" is an overused debating point that makes the opponent look better, regardless he's obviously talking about 16 CFR § 20.1 specifically subsection (a). Note that its trivial to work around. I purchased a bluetooth earpiece on Monday on amazon and its trivial to control-F around looking for the word "new". You will NOT find that word on any marketing. I don't believe any part of it is reused or recycled, however they're not dumb enough to use the word "new" in writing anywhere.
- antifa 4y ago
  > "citation needed" is an overused debating point That looked like a genuine request to me. Besides, some things really are questionable at a surface glance, but generally useful if and only if we know for sure they are factually true and the words used are precisely correct.
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  GUIDES FOR THE REBUILT, RECONDITIONED AND OTHER USED AUTOMOBILE PARTS INDUSTRY So I looked it up and it’s not really universally relevant. This is why people ask for citations…

VLM 4y ago

"Contains post consumer recycled content because our name brand multinational megacorporation cares about the environment."

jpindar 4y ago

If true, that must depend on some specific definition of 'new', since new auto parts are often built on old cores. That's why they give you cash back for the cores. Maybe there's some fine print somewhere that describes the part as 'remanufactured', but when you ask for a new, say, brake caliper, that's what you'll usually get.

mechanical_bear 4y ago
For autoparts they are clearly marked as “reman” or rebuilt or remanufactured or something of the like.