3 ms·
The wholesale price does fluctuate minute by minute. The grid and the average consumer/retail user is not yet sophisticated to take advantage of what you propos
by robbiep 5y ago
The wholesale price does fluctuate minute by minute. The grid and the average consumer/retail user is not yet sophisticated to take advantage of what you propose.
We know this because until recently, this ‘ideal situation’ that you propose was available by a company called Griddy, that went balls up when their consumers got absolutely slammed during the Texas snowstorms, and the idea of having the wholesale price if you’re a retail consumer became a very very silly idea
- WalterBright 5y agoOh, I know about the Texas example. It wasn't the concept that was bad, it was the implementation. The implementation needs to be coupled with meters where you can set a max price you'll accept. Any system where you sign a contract that says you'll pay any price to turn on a lamp is idiotic, and so are the people who sign such contracts. (The wholesale prices fluctuation does little to affect demand, because the demand is on the retail price, which is fixed.)
- midasuni 5y agoWhen it’s dark people turn on the lights. When it’s cold they turn on the heating. Those are the drivers of demand. Industrial demand (aluminium smelters etc) are more price sensitive, but they tend to be billed by the minute anyway. some “residential” people will be happy to turn off their Bitcoin or weed growing equipment when the price rises but that shouldnt be residential. The wealthy will have their own storage systems to smooth out the bumps and thus spend less than those who are poorer. You may like that idea, but for most people this would be devestating and less to more deaths.
- WalterBright 5y agoEvery house has many energy-hungry devices that can time shift their use. 1. electric car battery recharging 2. hot water heater - heat it to the max of the range when electricity is cheap 3. A/C - cool it to the coldest end of the range when electricity is cheap and so on. 1,2,3 are just the start of what can be done, cheaply, to shape demand to the price. > devestating People adjust their use of gasoline based on the constantly shifting prices. This is how demand is shaped to match supply.
- mschuster91 5y ago> People adjust their use of gasoline based on the constantly shifting prices. This is how demand is shaped to match supply. Yeah, but unlike electricity gas can be stored efficiently and long term - your typical 5-series BMW has ~60l of tank volume, a Ford F150 has ~90-100l, not to mention jerry cans. That means when gas is expensive, a consumer usually can choose to simply fill up the tank at another date.
- WalterBright 5y agoPeople don't actually do that. Electricity can be "stored" in hot water in the hot water tank, the thermal mass of the house, and in the battery in the electric car. This can greatly mitigate the demand for electricity at night, for example.
- pjc50 5y ago> The implementation needs to be coupled with meters where you can set a max price you'll accept. Systems where your house goes dark and cold in the middle of a blizzard are never going to be popular no matter how "rational" they are.
- Metacelsus 5y agoIf electricity is scarce during a blizzard, many people's houses are going to be dark and cold anyway. Variable pricing means people can decide how valuable not being dark and cold is to them.
- WalterBright 5y agoThe alternative is the lights go out anyway because of rolling blackouts.