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Before, I could think you were simply misinformed. But when you say "I have read plenty about them and it's still possible to track those coins through various

by gojomo 5y ago

Before, I could think you were simply misinformed. But when you say "I have read plenty about them and it's still possible to track those coins through various means using various pieces of metadata", you're either lying or unable to understand what you've read. I could give you my Zcash z-address right now, & there's no way known to cryptographic science for you to know its balance, when and how much ZEC it has received or sent, from or to whom, or even if it's ever been used at all. None of the metadata thrown off gives any hints to that. Even godlike omniscience about my every interaction with the internet, or a man-in-the-middle attack against all my connections to other Zcash nodes always, would only indicate that I have interacted with the network, and likely sent transactions at cerain times. You'd still know nothing about my address's activities. (The case is somewhat weaker for Monero, though savvy Monero users can start to approach Zcash's privacy with some extra steps like 'churning'.) If you keep spreading falsehoods, you're harming people who have a right to know what's technically possible, whether they like the implications or not. And while I'm unlikely to convince you, any other lurkers who want to do their own research, and confirm my claims, should take note: I am providing truthful, reliable info here, under my real name, which you can use to discover many other facts against which to calibrate my credibility (including the fact that I'm a compensated advisor to Electric Coin Company, the original developers of the Zcash software). A anonymous account is spreading falsehoods that will mislead you. Proceed accordingly.

throwaway82652 5y ago
I have spread no falsehoods. None of what you're saying matters, you're still hung up on what's technically possible in ideal circumstances when that's irrelevant to most people, it's irrelevant to most users of security software, and even most users of Zcash. Everything you're saying is technically correct and I agree with it but you've missed the basic point which is how that only applies if you only conduct every transaction in your whole life in Zcash using z addresses and you never plan to cash out or comply with accounting laws, which nobody does and will never actually happen on a large scale because it's inconvenient and unrealistic. If you actually do that you'd be the first person I've ever heard of, so I hope you can understand how unusual that is and how pointless it is for you to be trying to push this angle. Just stop, the harm you're doing from this is much worse than anything I could possibly say. You could actually stand a chance to convince me of whatever it is you're trying to say if you didn't take this very bad angle of trying to dump theory on people when you very well know that's unrealistic, combative and not convincing. Why are you doing this? Please just have a normal discussion and stop with this. You're clearly a very smart person and you don't need to resort to this negative attitude. This is a general problem with zero knowledge proofs by the way, you can use them all you want but they ultimately mean nothing when some other party that actually has the knowledge leaks it. And since the blockchain is required to be public there's going to be so much publicly generated metadata available that it eventually makes no difference what you hide behind a ZKP, the information leaks are built into the system. The weirdest and most self-defeating part of your comment is this: >would only indicate that I have interacted with the network, and likely sent transactions at cerain times Sorry but this is identifying metadata. It gives away a lot about you depending on who you are. I don't know why you wrote this and then wrote the rest of your comment trying to claim that I'm promoting falsehoods, when you refuted yourself in your own comment! I hope you were honest and forthcoming about these problems in your advisory position.
- gojomo 5y ago
  Your claim was that it was possible to “track those coins”. Your insistence, wordiness, & goalpost-shifting can’t cover up that you’re trying to assertively bluff knowledge of things you don’t understand, like a child trying to pretend they’re an adult. The adults aren’t fooled!

by gojomo 5y ago

throwaway82652 5y ago

I have spread no falsehoods. None of what you're saying matters, you're still hung up on what's technically possible in ideal circumstances when that's irrelevant to most people, it's irrelevant to most users of security software, and even most users of Zcash. Everything you're saying is technically correct and I agree with it but you've missed the basic point which is how that only applies if you only conduct every transaction in your whole life in Zcash using z addresses and you never plan to cash out or comply with accounting laws, which nobody does and will never actually happen on a large scale because it's inconvenient and unrealistic. If you actually do that you'd be the first person I've ever heard of, so I hope you can understand how unusual that is and how pointless it is for you to be trying to push this angle. Just stop, the harm you're doing from this is much worse than anything I could possibly say. You could actually stand a chance to convince me of whatever it is you're trying to say if you didn't take this very bad angle of trying to dump theory on people when you very well know that's unrealistic, combative and not convincing. Why are you doing this? Please just have a normal discussion and stop with this. You're clearly a very smart person and you don't need to resort to this negative attitude. This is a general problem with zero knowledge proofs by the way, you can use them all you want but they ultimately mean nothing when some other party that actually has the knowledge leaks it. And since the blockchain is required to be public there's going to be so much publicly generated metadata available that it eventually makes no difference what you hide behind a ZKP, the information leaks are built into the system. The weirdest and most self-defeating part of your comment is this: >would only indicate that I have interacted with the network, and likely sent transactions at cerain times Sorry but this is identifying metadata. It gives away a lot about you depending on who you are. I don't know why you wrote this and then wrote the rest of your comment trying to claim that I'm promoting falsehoods, when you refuted yourself in your own comment! I hope you were honest and forthcoming about these problems in your advisory position.

gojomo 5y ago
Your claim was that it was possible to “track those coins”. Your insistence, wordiness, & goalpost-shifting can’t cover up that you’re trying to assertively bluff knowledge of things you don’t understand, like a child trying to pretend they’re an adult. The adults aren’t fooled!