4 ms·

April 3rd was a sunday, and probably a very sunny one, with temperatures in ranges where a lot of people don't really need AC nor electrical heating. What do y

April 3rd was a sunday, and probably a very sunny one, with temperatures in ranges where a lot of people don't really need AC nor electrical heating. What do you do when it's not sunny, very cold/hot, no wind, and businesses and factories are open? Somehow we talk a lot about solar, and not enough about nuclear.

gameswithgo 5y ago
labster 5y ago
We talk about nuclear more than we talk about solar on HN. Probably because it’s controversial we get more atomic writes, while solar is presumed to exist.
cinntaile 5y ago
It's the title of the article after all. We could talk about Intel as well, but it's not relevant.
strainer 5y ago
You need forms of storage for that. The conundrum can be turned on its head - "What do you do when you have nuclear and the businesses and factories are closed ?" You either simply waste nuclear capacity that you've paid and waited years for to be built - or you need forms of storage to make use of it. Both Nuclear and Renewables really want storage, they will compete for it. If you can only make use of 60% of a nuclear plants capacity, you're price per unit is 100/60 more than the 'base-load' ideal that it was sold for. And another thing future nuclear plants will have to run alongside - is more and more renewable supply since renewables are cheaper and faster to build. We will have a situation where almost all demand is met by renewable supply eventually, and before that situation the demand left nuclear will decrease from 70,60,50,40,30...% - that's even without storage. How many decades do you expect it will take before those plants built with contracts to run for half a century or more, become pointlessly uneconomic ?
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  If there's too much power, it will be dirt cheap, and you'll charge your electric car then, which will maybe become affordable by then. Also with smart grid you'll regulate water heaters, ACs etc. Still better to have too much power than not enough... Especially if eg. Russia decides to close the gas pipe, or if americans decide to "bring democracy" to another middle eastern state and that disrupta oil delivery. We've sidetracked nuclear for decades now... The best time was decades ago, and the second vest time to build some new ones is now.
  - idiotsecant 5y ago
    No, having too much power without storage is exactly as bad as not enough. That's how the physics works. It's a zero sum game or it's lights out for the grid. It takes a lot of smart people and simulations to do a semi decent job of walking that tightrope day after day after day. Overproduction is a huge problem, as evidenced by the frequent negative power pricing of CA solar
    - standardUser 5y ago
      "No, having too much power without storage is exactly as bad as not enough." That makes no sense to me.
      - throwaway2037 5y ago
        I agree. The excess can be used to produce hydrogen gas (for heavy industry) from splitting water.
        idiotsecant 5y ago
        if you have hydrogen splitters than you don't have excess power. You have as much load as you have power.
        adrianN 5y ago
        If you have the infrastructure to produce hydrogen at scale you pretty much automatically have the infrastructure to store excess renewable production. That makes the "baseload!!" argument for nuclear moot.

gameswithgo 5y ago

labster 5y ago

We talk about nuclear more than we talk about solar on HN. Probably because it’s controversial we get more atomic writes, while solar is presumed to exist.

cinntaile 5y ago

It's the title of the article after all. We could talk about Intel as well, but it's not relevant.

strainer 5y ago

You need forms of storage for that. The conundrum can be turned on its head - "What do you do when you have nuclear and the businesses and factories are closed ?" You either simply waste nuclear capacity that you've paid and waited years for to be built - or you need forms of storage to make use of it. Both Nuclear and Renewables really want storage, they will compete for it. If you can only make use of 60% of a nuclear plants capacity, you're price per unit is 100/60 more than the 'base-load' ideal that it was sold for. And another thing future nuclear plants will have to run alongside - is more and more renewable supply since renewables are cheaper and faster to build. We will have a situation where almost all demand is met by renewable supply eventually, and before that situation the demand left nuclear will decrease from 70,60,50,40,30...% - that's even without storage. How many decades do you expect it will take before those plants built with contracts to run for half a century or more, become pointlessly uneconomic ?

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
If there's too much power, it will be dirt cheap, and you'll charge your electric car then, which will maybe become affordable by then. Also with smart grid you'll regulate water heaters, ACs etc. Still better to have too much power than not enough... Especially if eg. Russia decides to close the gas pipe, or if americans decide to "bring democracy" to another middle eastern state and that disrupta oil delivery. We've sidetracked nuclear for decades now... The best time was decades ago, and the second vest time to build some new ones is now.
- idiotsecant 5y ago
  No, having too much power without storage is exactly as bad as not enough. That's how the physics works. It's a zero sum game or it's lights out for the grid. It takes a lot of smart people and simulations to do a semi decent job of walking that tightrope day after day after day. Overproduction is a huge problem, as evidenced by the frequent negative power pricing of CA solar
  - standardUser 5y ago
    "No, having too much power without storage is exactly as bad as not enough." That makes no sense to me.
    - throwaway2037 5y ago
      I agree. The excess can be used to produce hydrogen gas (for heavy industry) from splitting water.
      - idiotsecant 5y ago
        if you have hydrogen splitters than you don't have excess power. You have as much load as you have power.
      - adrianN 5y ago
        If you have the infrastructure to produce hydrogen at scale you pretty much automatically have the infrastructure to store excess renewable production. That makes the "baseload!!" argument for nuclear moot.