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> "Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work th

by prmph 5y ago

> "Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. This passage is simply saying there was no human agriculture on the earth, because rain as we know did not exist, and there were no humans to do the work. > 8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Generally plants were existing, but this passage is saying that just prior to forming man, a special garden was planted for them to start with. In effect God was starting an agricultural project to hand over the the first man, for them to dominate the flora with time. > And then the first woman is formed from the rib of the first man. What is impossible about that? > Not to mention earth existing before the stars. Before even light! Nowhere does Genesis say or imply that

munk-a 5y ago
> > "Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. > This passage is simply saying there was no human agriculture on the earth, because rain as we know did not exist, and there were no humans to do the work. Assuming that that passage is talking about human agriculture is a very generous interpretation - it is specifically saying that plants had no reason to exist prior to human beings, and that would conflict with plant fossils (and a whole bunch of other fossils) pre-dating 2000 BC. I know it isn't uncommon to argue that fossils were the production of God to give us something to assemble in the main halls of our museums but I find that argument to be extremely weak and rely on God assuming they'd need to give us something we didn't know we'd need if it didn't exist. If there were no fossils predating, say, 500 AD, we'd probably try and come up with scientific justifications as to why fossils can only survive 1500 years. > > 8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." > Generally plants were existing, but this passage is saying that just prior to forming man, a special garden was planted for them to start with. In effect God was starting an agricultural project to hand over the the first man, for them to dominate the flora with time. Again, I think you're reading in some assumptions into the text - I've actually always read that passage to imply that the world was essentially an unformed wasteland prior to the creation of the garden of eden - that the "made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground" was a sort of spontaneous creation of life. > > And then the first woman is formed from the rib of the first man. > What is impossible about that? It is strange that in four thousand years of existence not once have we seen asexual rib-based reproduction occur again spontaneously - if this option was on the table you'd assume it'd occasionally happen again. Also, it clashes with a lot of our understanding of genetics, actually in a way worse than the first man being created from the rib of a woman - there is an x-chromosom that would need to be created somewhere in this process.
- prmph 5y ago
  > Assuming that that passage is talking about human agriculture is a very generous interpretation - it is specifically saying that plants had no reason to exist prior to human beings, Since earlier in Genesis it is made clear that plants were created before animals, I think it is the only consistent interpretation. Also, maybe "Agriculture" was not the best word to use; I meant any deliberate human action on the flora, not necessarily to produce food. > Again, I think you're reading in some assumptions into the text - I've actually always read that passage to imply that the world was essentially an unformed wasteland prior to the creation of the garden of eden - that the "made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground" was a sort of spontaneous creation of life. All the plants in the garden were already existing; that expression "made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground" apparently means the garden was a showcase of the wonderful variety of plant life existing.
omnicognate 5y ago
>> And then the first woman is formed from the rib of the first man. > What is impossible about that? I honestly don't know where to begin. Perhaps you can explain how that is compatible with what we know of the biological history of genders, sexual reproduction and anatomy? >> Not to mention earth existing before the stars. Before even light! > Nowhere does Genesis say or imply that It's literally the first thing it says: "1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." Earth, then light. Then, later (after land, vegetation, the sky, etc), stars: "14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night..."
- prmph 5y ago
  > "1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." Earth, then light. This is talking from the perspective of an observer on earth. Light in a general, diffuse form started to penetrate the atmosphere at some point (this is the "creation" of light at 1:3). Then there was an expanse (vault) created to form a division between water below and those above. For an observer on earth, light would have only gradually penetrated the waters above. Eventually, the sun and moon and stars, and their motions, would become visible (1:14-18)

by prmph 5y ago

munk-a 5y ago

> > "Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. > This passage is simply saying there was no human agriculture on the earth, because rain as we know did not exist, and there were no humans to do the work. Assuming that that passage is talking about human agriculture is a very generous interpretation - it is specifically saying that plants had no reason to exist prior to human beings, and that would conflict with plant fossils (and a whole bunch of other fossils) pre-dating 2000 BC. I know it isn't uncommon to argue that fossils were the production of God to give us something to assemble in the main halls of our museums but I find that argument to be extremely weak and rely on God assuming they'd need to give us something we didn't know we'd need if it didn't exist. If there were no fossils predating, say, 500 AD, we'd probably try and come up with scientific justifications as to why fossils can only survive 1500 years. > > 8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." > Generally plants were existing, but this passage is saying that just prior to forming man, a special garden was planted for them to start with. In effect God was starting an agricultural project to hand over the the first man, for them to dominate the flora with time. Again, I think you're reading in some assumptions into the text - I've actually always read that passage to imply that the world was essentially an unformed wasteland prior to the creation of the garden of eden - that the "made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground" was a sort of spontaneous creation of life. > > And then the first woman is formed from the rib of the first man. > What is impossible about that? It is strange that in four thousand years of existence not once have we seen asexual rib-based reproduction occur again spontaneously - if this option was on the table you'd assume it'd occasionally happen again. Also, it clashes with a lot of our understanding of genetics, actually in a way worse than the first man being created from the rib of a woman - there is an x-chromosom that would need to be created somewhere in this process.

prmph 5y ago
> Assuming that that passage is talking about human agriculture is a very generous interpretation - it is specifically saying that plants had no reason to exist prior to human beings, Since earlier in Genesis it is made clear that plants were created before animals, I think it is the only consistent interpretation. Also, maybe "Agriculture" was not the best word to use; I meant any deliberate human action on the flora, not necessarily to produce food. > Again, I think you're reading in some assumptions into the text - I've actually always read that passage to imply that the world was essentially an unformed wasteland prior to the creation of the garden of eden - that the "made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground" was a sort of spontaneous creation of life. All the plants in the garden were already existing; that expression "made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground" apparently means the garden was a showcase of the wonderful variety of plant life existing.

omnicognate 5y ago

>> And then the first woman is formed from the rib of the first man. > What is impossible about that? I honestly don't know where to begin. Perhaps you can explain how that is compatible with what we know of the biological history of genders, sexual reproduction and anatomy? >> Not to mention earth existing before the stars. Before even light! > Nowhere does Genesis say or imply that It's literally the first thing it says: "1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." Earth, then light. Then, later (after land, vegetation, the sky, etc), stars: "14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night..."

prmph 5y ago
> "1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." Earth, then light. This is talking from the perspective of an observer on earth. Light in a general, diffuse form started to penetrate the atmosphere at some point (this is the "creation" of light at 1:3). Then there was an expanse (vault) created to form a division between water below and those above. For an observer on earth, light would have only gradually penetrated the waters above. Eventually, the sun and moon and stars, and their motions, would become visible (1:14-18)