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I have read plenty about them and it's still possible to track those coins through various means using various pieces of metadata. The worst problem with them i

I have read plenty about them and it's still possible to track those coins through various means using various pieces of metadata. The worst problem with them is probably that the privacy gains are basically useless if you ever plan to cash out on a legitimate exchange. >But it's not essentially true, and with education, & software, & further technical advances, far more privacy than we have now is possible Yeah and that's a huge headache most people don't want to go through, very few even in the privacy community want to have their money tied up in that kind of system forever because it's so cumbersome to use correctly. >Especially, far more privacy from criminals & abusive regimes that would persecute/imprison/kill people for dumb reasons. I have seen no evidence that this kind of technology actually helps those people in any disproportionate way, the same technology can be used by criminals and abusive regimes to conceal their activities and in fact it is being used that way right now. Long-term I think it's unwise for them to use it for that purpose, for the same reason it's unwise for others to use it for the purposes of evading them. Remember that the human factor of people making stupid yet honest mistakes is the biggest vulnerability in any system of this kind.

gojomo 4y ago
Before, I could think you were simply misinformed. But when you say "I have read plenty about them and it's still possible to track those coins through various means using various pieces of metadata", you're either lying or unable to understand what you've read. I could give you my Zcash z-address right now, & there's no way known to cryptographic science for you to know its balance, when and how much ZEC it has received or sent, from or to whom, or even if it's ever been used at all. None of the metadata thrown off gives any hints to that. Even godlike omniscience about my every interaction with the internet, or a man-in-the-middle attack against all my connections to other Zcash nodes always, would only indicate that I have interacted with the network, and likely sent transactions at cerain times. You'd still know nothing about my address's activities. (The case is somewhat weaker for Monero, though savvy Monero users can start to approach Zcash's privacy with some extra steps like 'churning'.) If you keep spreading falsehoods, you're harming people who have a right to know what's technically possible, whether they like the implications or not. And while I'm unlikely to convince you, any other lurkers who want to do their own research, and confirm my claims, should take note: I am providing truthful, reliable info here, under my real name, which you can use to discover many other facts against which to calibrate my credibility (including the fact that I'm a compensated advisor to Electric Coin Company, the original developers of the Zcash software). A anonymous account is spreading falsehoods that will mislead you. Proceed accordingly.
- throwaway82652 4y ago
  I have spread no falsehoods. None of what you're saying matters, you're still hung up on what's technically possible in ideal circumstances when that's irrelevant to most people, it's irrelevant to most users of security software, and even most users of Zcash. Everything you're saying is technically correct and I agree with it but you've missed the basic point which is how that only applies if you only conduct every transaction in your whole life in Zcash using z addresses and you never plan to cash out or comply with accounting laws, which nobody does and will never actually happen on a large scale because it's inconvenient and unrealistic. If you actually do that you'd be the first person I've ever heard of, so I hope you can understand how unusual that is and how pointless it is for you to be trying to push this angle. Just stop, the harm you're doing from this is much worse than anything I could possibly say. You could actually stand a chance to convince me of whatever it is you're trying to say if you didn't take this very bad angle of trying to dump theory on people when you very well know that's unrealistic, combative and not convincing. Why are you doing this? Please just have a normal discussion and stop with this. You're clearly a very smart person and you don't need to resort to this negative attitude. This is a general problem with zero knowledge proofs by the way, you can use them all you want but they ultimately mean nothing when some other party that actually has the knowledge leaks it. And since the blockchain is required to be public there's going to be so much publicly generated metadata available that it eventually makes no difference what you hide behind a ZKP, the information leaks are built into the system. The weirdest and most self-defeating part of your comment is this: >would only indicate that I have interacted with the network, and likely sent transactions at cerain times Sorry but this is identifying metadata. It gives away a lot about you depending on who you are. I don't know why you wrote this and then wrote the rest of your comment trying to claim that I'm promoting falsehoods, when you refuted yourself in your own comment! I hope you were honest and forthcoming about these problems in your advisory position.
  - gojomo 4y ago
    Your claim was that it was possible to “track those coins”. Your insistence, wordiness, & goalpost-shifting can’t cover up that you’re trying to assertively bluff knowledge of things you don’t understand, like a child trying to pretend they’re an adult. The adults aren’t fooled!

gojomo 4y ago

Before, I could think you were simply misinformed. But when you say "I have read plenty about them and it's still possible to track those coins through various means using various pieces of metadata", you're either lying or unable to understand what you've read. I could give you my Zcash z-address right now, & there's no way known to cryptographic science for you to know its balance, when and how much ZEC it has received or sent, from or to whom, or even if it's ever been used at all. None of the metadata thrown off gives any hints to that. Even godlike omniscience about my every interaction with the internet, or a man-in-the-middle attack against all my connections to other Zcash nodes always, would only indicate that I have interacted with the network, and likely sent transactions at cerain times. You'd still know nothing about my address's activities. (The case is somewhat weaker for Monero, though savvy Monero users can start to approach Zcash's privacy with some extra steps like 'churning'.) If you keep spreading falsehoods, you're harming people who have a right to know what's technically possible, whether they like the implications or not. And while I'm unlikely to convince you, any other lurkers who want to do their own research, and confirm my claims, should take note: I am providing truthful, reliable info here, under my real name, which you can use to discover many other facts against which to calibrate my credibility (including the fact that I'm a compensated advisor to Electric Coin Company, the original developers of the Zcash software). A anonymous account is spreading falsehoods that will mislead you. Proceed accordingly.

throwaway82652 4y ago
I have spread no falsehoods. None of what you're saying matters, you're still hung up on what's technically possible in ideal circumstances when that's irrelevant to most people, it's irrelevant to most users of security software, and even most users of Zcash. Everything you're saying is technically correct and I agree with it but you've missed the basic point which is how that only applies if you only conduct every transaction in your whole life in Zcash using z addresses and you never plan to cash out or comply with accounting laws, which nobody does and will never actually happen on a large scale because it's inconvenient and unrealistic. If you actually do that you'd be the first person I've ever heard of, so I hope you can understand how unusual that is and how pointless it is for you to be trying to push this angle. Just stop, the harm you're doing from this is much worse than anything I could possibly say. You could actually stand a chance to convince me of whatever it is you're trying to say if you didn't take this very bad angle of trying to dump theory on people when you very well know that's unrealistic, combative and not convincing. Why are you doing this? Please just have a normal discussion and stop with this. You're clearly a very smart person and you don't need to resort to this negative attitude. This is a general problem with zero knowledge proofs by the way, you can use them all you want but they ultimately mean nothing when some other party that actually has the knowledge leaks it. And since the blockchain is required to be public there's going to be so much publicly generated metadata available that it eventually makes no difference what you hide behind a ZKP, the information leaks are built into the system. The weirdest and most self-defeating part of your comment is this: >would only indicate that I have interacted with the network, and likely sent transactions at cerain times Sorry but this is identifying metadata. It gives away a lot about you depending on who you are. I don't know why you wrote this and then wrote the rest of your comment trying to claim that I'm promoting falsehoods, when you refuted yourself in your own comment! I hope you were honest and forthcoming about these problems in your advisory position.
- gojomo 4y ago
  Your claim was that it was possible to “track those coins”. Your insistence, wordiness, & goalpost-shifting can’t cover up that you’re trying to assertively bluff knowledge of things you don’t understand, like a child trying to pretend they’re an adult. The adults aren’t fooled!