4 ms·

When I first moved to San Francisco I walked from 10th & Mission to Bessie Carmichael School at 7th & Folsom then took MUNI to Commodore Stockton Elementary in

by clsec 4y ago

When I first moved to San Francisco I walked from 10th & Mission to Bessie Carmichael School at 7th & Folsom then took MUNI to Commodore Stockton Elementary in Chinatown every weekday. That was in first grade in 1972. At the time SOMA was an extremely bad place, the TL was the same and HP was a place you didn't go if you had light skin (except for MLB & NFL games). I find that having that autonomy as a child is what has lead me to not be fearful of most things. btw - not that it's ok, but people exposing themselves has been around for a long time. I've experienced it myself as a child.

clsec 4y ago
I should add that my parents bought me my first bike while we lived in SF. The reason they say we moved to Marin when I started second grade was because my parents had nowhere in The City to teach me how to ride it.
- gernb 4y ago
  I feel like the Richmond and Sunset districts of SF are pretty safe places to ride bikes. Plus both of them are near Golden Gate Park. I ride in those areas on weekends and except for a few hot spots there aren't that many cars and streets are quiet
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  My point wasn’t about seediness or drug use, but about the number of severely mentally ill living on the streets. That has objectively gotten worse since the barriers to commitment went up substantially in the early 1980s and the Reagan dismantling of the national public mental health system and subsequent collapse at the state level. I feel less worried about drug dealers who have a rational economic reason for what they do than an untreated and unhoused paranoid schizophrenic with violent tendencies. IMO, that’s the really big change in at least the urban landscape. (N.b., I see this in NYC, Seattle, SF,and a number of other cities I’ve lived in). Folks have noted the helicopter behavior permeates even suburbia, but I wonder if that’s more because of sprawl and lack of meaningful pedestrian infrastructure than anxiety.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > gotten worse since the barriers to commitment went up substantially in the early 1980s That was 40 years ago! > I feel less worried about drug dealers who have a rational economic reason for what they do than an untreated and unhoused paranoid schizophrenic with violent tendencies. I've spent a lot of time on city streets and I've never seen these putative people. The good news is that these bogey-people are unicorns. I've seen some people acting unhinged, but they are very easy to avoid - much easier than cars and unwanted aquaintences. Just cross the street, or if the sidewalk is broad enough, just walk around them. Better, get them some help. They are completely lost in their own world, and are not able to follow, much less chase or assault someone. They are, in fact, very vulnerable, the weakest people out there. You should worry more about the drug dealers, who are not making rational decisions (thus their jobs), and may have guns (gun crime being the only kind that is increasing). And even they will be perfectly friendly if you don't have business with them.
    - DocTomoe 4y ago
      > That was 40 years ago! Which just means the homeless population had 40 years to be - for the lack of a better word - 'enriched' with people who should have gotten psychiatric help (and them being on the street is unlikely to have made them become better). > They are, in fact, very vulnerable, the weakest people out there. I agree, and I think they ought to get the help they need, and what happens to them in the US is criminal. That still doesn't mean I would let my kid run unsupervised in an open-air forensic psychiatric ward.
      - wolverine876 4y ago
        > open-air forensic psychiatric ward I wouldn't like that either and thankfully, that's not the reality. Do you have any direct experience? As many people here who have experience, and have said, that is not at all an accurate description.
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    How is Reagan responsible for decisions made at a state and local level? Mental asylums had already lost their credibility as news of medical abuse was documented in the 60s. O'Connor vs Donaldson had rendered involuntary commitment as a violation of personal liberty. By the time Reagan became President, it was quite clear asylums were little more than medical prisons.
jasonfarnon 4y ago
"people exposing themselves has been around for a long time" well that is the harm many parents are trying to avoid. you can say it hasn't had a negative effect on you, but that's subject to debate. nothing personal. speaking for myself, I would say there is nothing good, and some definite bad habits, that came directly out of what I saw as a middle schooler in my city's local red light district.

by clsec 4y ago

clsec 4y ago

I should add that my parents bought me my first bike while we lived in SF. The reason they say we moved to Marin when I started second grade was because my parents had nowhere in The City to teach me how to ride it.

gernb 4y ago
I feel like the Richmond and Sunset districts of SF are pretty safe places to ride bikes. Plus both of them are near Golden Gate Park. I ride in those areas on weekends and except for a few hot spots there aren't that many cars and streets are quiet
fnordpiglet 4y ago
My point wasn’t about seediness or drug use, but about the number of severely mentally ill living on the streets. That has objectively gotten worse since the barriers to commitment went up substantially in the early 1980s and the Reagan dismantling of the national public mental health system and subsequent collapse at the state level. I feel less worried about drug dealers who have a rational economic reason for what they do than an untreated and unhoused paranoid schizophrenic with violent tendencies. IMO, that’s the really big change in at least the urban landscape. (N.b., I see this in NYC, Seattle, SF,and a number of other cities I’ve lived in). Folks have noted the helicopter behavior permeates even suburbia, but I wonder if that’s more because of sprawl and lack of meaningful pedestrian infrastructure than anxiety.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > gotten worse since the barriers to commitment went up substantially in the early 1980s That was 40 years ago! > I feel less worried about drug dealers who have a rational economic reason for what they do than an untreated and unhoused paranoid schizophrenic with violent tendencies. I've spent a lot of time on city streets and I've never seen these putative people. The good news is that these bogey-people are unicorns. I've seen some people acting unhinged, but they are very easy to avoid - much easier than cars and unwanted aquaintences. Just cross the street, or if the sidewalk is broad enough, just walk around them. Better, get them some help. They are completely lost in their own world, and are not able to follow, much less chase or assault someone. They are, in fact, very vulnerable, the weakest people out there. You should worry more about the drug dealers, who are not making rational decisions (thus their jobs), and may have guns (gun crime being the only kind that is increasing). And even they will be perfectly friendly if you don't have business with them.
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    > That was 40 years ago! Which just means the homeless population had 40 years to be - for the lack of a better word - 'enriched' with people who should have gotten psychiatric help (and them being on the street is unlikely to have made them become better). > They are, in fact, very vulnerable, the weakest people out there. I agree, and I think they ought to get the help they need, and what happens to them in the US is criminal. That still doesn't mean I would let my kid run unsupervised in an open-air forensic psychiatric ward.
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      > open-air forensic psychiatric ward I wouldn't like that either and thankfully, that's not the reality. Do you have any direct experience? As many people here who have experience, and have said, that is not at all an accurate description.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  How is Reagan responsible for decisions made at a state and local level? Mental asylums had already lost their credibility as news of medical abuse was documented in the 60s. O'Connor vs Donaldson had rendered involuntary commitment as a violation of personal liberty. By the time Reagan became President, it was quite clear asylums were little more than medical prisons.

jasonfarnon 4y ago

"people exposing themselves has been around for a long time" well that is the harm many parents are trying to avoid. you can say it hasn't had a negative effect on you, but that's subject to debate. nothing personal. speaking for myself, I would say there is nothing good, and some definite bad habits, that came directly out of what I saw as a middle schooler in my city's local red light district.