6 ms·

maybe another reason to have sock-puppet cutouts for everything. Maybe we shouldn’t allow the gov’t to sanction speech in the “1st" place, heheh. Maybe it’s no

by no-s 4y ago

maybe another reason to have sock-puppet cutouts for everything. Maybe we shouldn’t allow the gov’t to sanction speech in the “1st" place, heheh. Maybe it’s not the Russians that are the problem...

wojciii 4y ago
The russians are a part of the problem. They are raping an European country. Perhaps this should learn Us to keep all our eggs in one basket. No matter how easy it is.
- Macha 4y ago
  In this case, it's more like the eggs are distributed across every basket, such that any basket being taken away leads to problems.
- yucky 4y ago
  >The russians are a part of the problem. They are raping an European country. I wonder if all US citizens are equally responsible for our military's reign of terror over the last couple of decades...
  - vba616 4y ago
    I think people have been saying for a long time that Americans are especially responsible because the US is a democracy and not a dictatorship. On the other hand, it is often claimed, and seems plausible to many, that the "military industrial complex" is kind of independent from elected representatives' control so citizens are helpless. Both these themes seem to be pushed by fringe political groups and anti-US propaganda. They are synergistic. Demoralizing anyone is best done by convincing them that all possible choices are evil and nothing can be improved. Regardless, the unseen power of this sort of discussion is how it maintains a false bubble where the US "reign of terror" is compared to this particular brutal war only. I haven't been paying attention myself to how Russia has been suppressing revolts, destroying cities, expelling ethnic groups, and backing separatists through the years, but since 1991, there have been something like ten conflicts involving the Russian Federation. Ten! Well, I had to look it up, but I was certain it was more than zero (plus Ukraine/Crimea). Chechnya alone accounts for two wars. Everything that anyone ever tries to convince you of these days is an unstated premise. Since everyone's completely immune to assertions by people they don't like.
    - positus 4y ago
      Small clarification: the US is not a democracy. It is a democratic *republic*.
      - vba616 4y ago
        It's the democratic aspect that is used to argue that US citizens are responsible for the actions of their government. Besides, a democratic republic is a democracy, just like a dwarf planet is a planet.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        > Small clarification: the US is not a democracy. It is a democratic I would say that 1) definitions are descriptive of how people use them, as much as they are prescriptive. Perhaps more so. 2) the term "a democracy" is usually used in the binary: Do this countries people choose their leaders or not? Are there voters who "are responsible for the actions of their government" or not? i.e. Democracy vs Autocracy. The parent commenter makes it very clear that this distinction is what they were getting at: > Americans are especially responsible because the US is a democracy and not a dictatorship. To be sure, there are forms of democracy such as "direct democracy" or "democratic republic" and degrees of it, such as a "flawed democracy" or a "new democracy". But the idea that the USA does not fit into this general binary category - as the word "democracy" is used in common speech that you well understand - is not warranted.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    They are and even more so. Every voter of either major politically party has blood on their hands and deserve death penalty for their crimes against humanity.
  - Sakos 4y ago
    Yes. This is a common opinion outside the US. The whataboutism in general (not referring to your comment) regarding the Russian war is sort of ridiculous. It's like nobody remembers the outrage over US wars over the past 20 years. Like, most Germans I've met are very critical of the US and their foreign policy.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      > The whataboutism regarding the Russian war is sort of ridiculous. ridiculous and also predictable. The article on "whataboutism" has a whole section on USSR/ Russia, who frequently deploy this distraction: "whataboutism, a "sacred Russian tactic"" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- airhangerf15 4y ago
  Maybe NATO shouldn't have pushed almost every neighbouring nation on their border to become a member state and the US shouldn't have funded biological "research" labs in Ukraine.
  - bckbyunpopulard 4y ago
  - iostream24 4y ago
    The latter point is a total lie (evidence?) The former point should be turned: countries seek to join NATO (or not) Your dear leader did the single act most likely to cause nations to want to join a mutual protection alliance: attacked a potential candidate. Now Sweden and Finland will likely join this year. Self determination. Either a country has the sovereign right to make alliances as it sees fit or it’s not a country. I cannot see any desire for suddenly appeasing Putins concerns about NATO springing from the bloodbath that he is inflicting on Ukraine right now for no good reason. This notion of victim blame and provocation stops at the moment Vladimir Putin chose to invade Ukraine. 110% Putins fault all
    - airhangerf15 4y ago
      Glenn Greenwald does the best video on the biological research labs in Ukraine: https://rumble.com/vx2iq7-the-white-houses-game-playing-denials-of-bio-labs-in-ukraine.html https://rumble.com/vx2iq7-the-white-houses-game-playing-deni... Twitter has been suspending any accounts that post any evidence (read the books they want to burn): https://blog.deplorablesocial.com/twitter-account-suspended-shortly-after-tweeting-a-thread-with-an-interesting-theory-on-russia-airstrikes/ https://blog.deplorablesocial.com/twitter-account-suspended-... The US does have "Biological Thread Reduction Programs" in Ukraine and has admitted to it. I hope you can see the obvious propaganda in the name (Greenwald goes into this concept in that video as well): https://web.archive.org/web/20220224094418mp_/https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/kyiv/sections-offices/defense-threat-reduction-office/biological-threat-reduction-program/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220224094418mp_/https://ua.use... There are critics that say there was nothing nefarious about these labs, I'll give you that: https://meaww.com/putin-bioweapons-labs-ukraine-theory-experts https://meaww.com/putin-bioweapons-labs-ukraine-theory-exper... and every major news agency denounced these were not bioweapons labs: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/25/fact-check-claim-us-biolabs-ukraine-disinformation/6937923001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/25/fac... https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/25/tweets/there-are-no-us-run-biolabs-ukraine-contrary-socia/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/25/tweets/the... https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/social-media-posts-misrepresent-u-s-ukraine-threat-reduction-program/ https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/social-media-posts-misrepr... But there is no way they could verify that "Fact check" false in the middle of a war ... they lie all the time and are just making up stuff here as well: https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2022/03/09/victoria-nuland-ukraine-has-biological-research-facilities-worried-russia-may-seize-them/ https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2022/03/09/victoria-nul... --- So those are both sides right there. Personally, after reviewing all the evidence ... I side with Greenwald on this one. First, it's undeniable the US had biological research labs there. That's 100% factual. Now, you really believe they weren't working on any weapons? The government that gave us PRISM, NSA domestic spying and a president that has deep and direct corruption with Ukraine and China via his son Hunter ... It's more likely than not they were working on gain of function research there .. and that means weapons.
- bckbyunpopulard 4y ago

by no-s 4y ago

wojciii 4y ago

The russians are a part of the problem. They are raping an European country. Perhaps this should learn Us to keep all our eggs in one basket. No matter how easy it is.

Macha 4y ago
In this case, it's more like the eggs are distributed across every basket, such that any basket being taken away leads to problems.
yucky 4y ago
>The russians are a part of the problem. They are raping an European country. I wonder if all US citizens are equally responsible for our military's reign of terror over the last couple of decades...
- vba616 4y ago
  I think people have been saying for a long time that Americans are especially responsible because the US is a democracy and not a dictatorship. On the other hand, it is often claimed, and seems plausible to many, that the "military industrial complex" is kind of independent from elected representatives' control so citizens are helpless. Both these themes seem to be pushed by fringe political groups and anti-US propaganda. They are synergistic. Demoralizing anyone is best done by convincing them that all possible choices are evil and nothing can be improved. Regardless, the unseen power of this sort of discussion is how it maintains a false bubble where the US "reign of terror" is compared to this particular brutal war only. I haven't been paying attention myself to how Russia has been suppressing revolts, destroying cities, expelling ethnic groups, and backing separatists through the years, but since 1991, there have been something like ten conflicts involving the Russian Federation. Ten! Well, I had to look it up, but I was certain it was more than zero (plus Ukraine/Crimea). Chechnya alone accounts for two wars. Everything that anyone ever tries to convince you of these days is an unstated premise. Since everyone's completely immune to assertions by people they don't like.
  - positus 4y ago
    Small clarification: the US is not a democracy. It is a democratic *republic*.
    - vba616 4y ago
      It's the democratic aspect that is used to argue that US citizens are responsible for the actions of their government. Besides, a democratic republic is a democracy, just like a dwarf planet is a planet.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      > Small clarification: the US is not a democracy. It is a democratic I would say that 1) definitions are descriptive of how people use them, as much as they are prescriptive. Perhaps more so. 2) the term "a democracy" is usually used in the binary: Do this countries people choose their leaders or not? Are there voters who "are responsible for the actions of their government" or not? i.e. Democracy vs Autocracy. The parent commenter makes it very clear that this distinction is what they were getting at: > Americans are especially responsible because the US is a democracy and not a dictatorship. To be sure, there are forms of democracy such as "direct democracy" or "democratic republic" and degrees of it, such as a "flawed democracy" or a "new democracy". But the idea that the USA does not fit into this general binary category - as the word "democracy" is used in common speech that you well understand - is not warranted.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  They are and even more so. Every voter of either major politically party has blood on their hands and deserve death penalty for their crimes against humanity.
- Sakos 4y ago
  Yes. This is a common opinion outside the US. The whataboutism in general (not referring to your comment) regarding the Russian war is sort of ridiculous. It's like nobody remembers the outrage over US wars over the past 20 years. Like, most Germans I've met are very critical of the US and their foreign policy.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    > The whataboutism regarding the Russian war is sort of ridiculous. ridiculous and also predictable. The article on "whataboutism" has a whole section on USSR/ Russia, who frequently deploy this distraction: "whataboutism, a "sacred Russian tactic"" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
airhangerf15 4y ago
Maybe NATO shouldn't have pushed almost every neighbouring nation on their border to become a member state and the US shouldn't have funded biological "research" labs in Ukraine.
- bckbyunpopulard 4y ago
- iostream24 4y ago
  The latter point is a total lie (evidence?) The former point should be turned: countries seek to join NATO (or not) Your dear leader did the single act most likely to cause nations to want to join a mutual protection alliance: attacked a potential candidate. Now Sweden and Finland will likely join this year. Self determination. Either a country has the sovereign right to make alliances as it sees fit or it’s not a country. I cannot see any desire for suddenly appeasing Putins concerns about NATO springing from the bloodbath that he is inflicting on Ukraine right now for no good reason. This notion of victim blame and provocation stops at the moment Vladimir Putin chose to invade Ukraine. 110% Putins fault all
  - airhangerf15 4y ago
    Glenn Greenwald does the best video on the biological research labs in Ukraine: https://rumble.com/vx2iq7-the-white-houses-game-playing-denials-of-bio-labs-in-ukraine.html https://rumble.com/vx2iq7-the-white-houses-game-playing-deni... Twitter has been suspending any accounts that post any evidence (read the books they want to burn): https://blog.deplorablesocial.com/twitter-account-suspended-shortly-after-tweeting-a-thread-with-an-interesting-theory-on-russia-airstrikes/ https://blog.deplorablesocial.com/twitter-account-suspended-... The US does have "Biological Thread Reduction Programs" in Ukraine and has admitted to it. I hope you can see the obvious propaganda in the name (Greenwald goes into this concept in that video as well): https://web.archive.org/web/20220224094418mp_/https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/kyiv/sections-offices/defense-threat-reduction-office/biological-threat-reduction-program/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220224094418mp_/https://ua.use... There are critics that say there was nothing nefarious about these labs, I'll give you that: https://meaww.com/putin-bioweapons-labs-ukraine-theory-experts https://meaww.com/putin-bioweapons-labs-ukraine-theory-exper... and every major news agency denounced these were not bioweapons labs: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/25/fact-check-claim-us-biolabs-ukraine-disinformation/6937923001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/25/fac... https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/25/tweets/there-are-no-us-run-biolabs-ukraine-contrary-socia/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/25/tweets/the... https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/social-media-posts-misrepresent-u-s-ukraine-threat-reduction-program/ https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/social-media-posts-misrepr... But there is no way they could verify that "Fact check" false in the middle of a war ... they lie all the time and are just making up stuff here as well: https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2022/03/09/victoria-nuland-ukraine-has-biological-research-facilities-worried-russia-may-seize-them/ https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2022/03/09/victoria-nul... --- So those are both sides right there. Personally, after reviewing all the evidence ... I side with Greenwald on this one. First, it's undeniable the US had biological research labs there. That's 100% factual. Now, you really believe they weren't working on any weapons? The government that gave us PRISM, NSA domestic spying and a president that has deep and direct corruption with Ukraine and China via his son Hunter ... It's more likely than not they were working on gain of function research there .. and that means weapons.
bckbyunpopulard 4y ago