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They are clearly not applying a blanket suspend all Russian accounts policy but rather one that attempts to address accounts with some kind of tie to sanctioned

They are clearly not applying a blanket suspend all Russian accounts policy but rather one that attempts to address accounts with some kind of tie to sanctioned Russian companies. Github/Microsoft is a US based company and likely feels legally compelled to take these actions. In fact they say this: At the same time, we are taking action to support our platform and comply with the many government mandates you’ve likely read about in the context of this war. Our legal team examines such mandates thoroughly, and we are complying with export controls and trade regulations as they evolve. This includes implementing stringent new export controls that are aimed at severely restricting Russia’s access to technologies and other items it needs to sustain its aggressive military capabilities. That's the end of it full stop. I'm sorry this inconvenienced some open source project but this is how things like an account suspension work. This is not the death of open source or the fault of Github. Everyone knows where the real blame lies and rather than bitch about being inconvenienced by the response, the open source author should direct their anger there. Yes, "innocent" Russians are getting swept up by the response and that sucks.

no-s 5y ago
>Everyone knows where the real blame lies and rather than bitch about being inconvenienced by the response, the open source author should direct their anger there. Yes, "innocent" Russians are getting swept up by the response and that sucks. Do you mean “Ostracize Russian citizens individually as a proxy for ostracizing Putin?”
- uberman 5y ago
  The overwhelming majority of Russian citizens support both the war and Putin. One need not take Russian polling's word for it. Even independent polling suggests Putin enjoys wide support and that only 23% of Russians oppose the war in Ukraine. While there are certainly oligarchs (who have the most to loose) who have spoken out against the war, the "Z" branding is very popular in Russia with influencers and athletes brandishing it brazenly in their respective forums. So yes, I recognize that not every Russian supports the war or Putin and that sucks for them. The reality is that the vast majority do. Pressure on Russians puts pressure on Putin and likely in a way that is more effective that hoping that the next impounded mega-yacht was actually his.
  - vba616 5y ago
    I have seen nobody mention it, but is "Z" by any chance associated with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_Z_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_Z_(film) ? I was thinking perhaps Russians are thinking of the opposition being zombies in much the same way as right-wingers talk about NPCs. Or maybe it's just a coincidence.
    - uberman 5y ago
      I am under the belief that "Z" was painted on military vehicles transiting to be part of the pre-war buildup on Russia's western border. "Zapad" being Russian for "West". I don't know this to be true but it seems plausible to me. I'm sure there are plenty of co-opted uses/meanings of the "Z" now though.
  - kogfkdokgfdgf 5y ago
    "the "Z" branding is very popular in Russia with influencers and athletes brandishing it brazenly in their respective forums" I only know of two times this has happened. The gymnast one and the rally one, which reportedly was a forced event. Every other athletic event that involves Russian athletes, like hundreds here including the hockey playoffs and figure skating, have not displayed the Z branding.
dmatech 5y ago
That's hardly the only option. They could simply lock the accounts in question without vanishing all data associated with them. This is how bans have historically worked. The Twitter approach of hiding everything is a counterproductive anomaly.
- uberman 5y ago
  If Github was legally bound to suspend these accounts and that is how their suspend is implemented then yes, it was the only option.
cinntaile 5y ago
I think this needs to be highlighted more. Now github takes a lot of the blame while they are simply complying with the regulations. Maybe they should display something similar to what is shown when a warez website gets taken down by the authorities. I also think they need to receive a warning before this is implemented, so that they have time to move over to another platform. I hope this was done.
ttybird2 5y ago
"Everyone knows where the real blame lies" Github basically gaslighting people into thinking that certain things (eg pull requests) never actually existed? It most certainly is the fault of github, they could have handled it way better. Nice "scare quotes" at the end btw.
- uberman 5y ago
  No one is attempting to convince you that a PR never existed. This is just how Github account suspension works. If they allowed PR to stand it would hardly be viewed as legally ceasing interaction with sanctioned entities. I put "scare quotes" as you call them to highlight the fact that the overwhelming majority of Russians support the war in Ukraine. Even in independent polling.
tpoacher 5y ago
You can be 100% correct in all of the above, and it can still be true that Github cannot be trusted, in the manner that the article states. If anything, you're not really arguing against the article's claim; you're simply explaining why they cannot be trusted but can't help it. "The guy whose real fault it is" or whatever is a bit of a red herring in this context.
- uberman 5y ago
  I guess we can agree to disagree. I feel a claim that Github cannot be trusted because they obey the law seems to be disingenuous.
hollerith 5y ago
>Everyone knows where the real blame lies Honest question: do you mean Russia or do you mean the US for imposing sanctions that fail to give companies enough flexibility to do the right thing?
- uberman 5y ago
  Putin and by proxy Russia, and I am kind of stunned that there would be any question about where the root cause lies. You can't possibly be suggesting that US law should include some random provider that would allow individuals the affordance to obey as they felt comfy about.
- Sakos 5y ago
  Why would anybody else be at fault when Putin started a war that has already killed thousands of civilians and lead to the rape and/or torture of countless people?

no-s 5y ago

>Everyone knows where the real blame lies and rather than bitch about being inconvenienced by the response, the open source author should direct their anger there. Yes, "innocent" Russians are getting swept up by the response and that sucks. Do you mean “Ostracize Russian citizens individually as a proxy for ostracizing Putin?”

uberman 5y ago
The overwhelming majority of Russian citizens support both the war and Putin. One need not take Russian polling's word for it. Even independent polling suggests Putin enjoys wide support and that only 23% of Russians oppose the war in Ukraine. While there are certainly oligarchs (who have the most to loose) who have spoken out against the war, the "Z" branding is very popular in Russia with influencers and athletes brandishing it brazenly in their respective forums. So yes, I recognize that not every Russian supports the war or Putin and that sucks for them. The reality is that the vast majority do. Pressure on Russians puts pressure on Putin and likely in a way that is more effective that hoping that the next impounded mega-yacht was actually his.
- vba616 5y ago
  I have seen nobody mention it, but is "Z" by any chance associated with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_Z_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_Z_(film) ? I was thinking perhaps Russians are thinking of the opposition being zombies in much the same way as right-wingers talk about NPCs. Or maybe it's just a coincidence.
  - uberman 5y ago
    I am under the belief that "Z" was painted on military vehicles transiting to be part of the pre-war buildup on Russia's western border. "Zapad" being Russian for "West". I don't know this to be true but it seems plausible to me. I'm sure there are plenty of co-opted uses/meanings of the "Z" now though.
- kogfkdokgfdgf 5y ago
  "the "Z" branding is very popular in Russia with influencers and athletes brandishing it brazenly in their respective forums" I only know of two times this has happened. The gymnast one and the rally one, which reportedly was a forced event. Every other athletic event that involves Russian athletes, like hundreds here including the hockey playoffs and figure skating, have not displayed the Z branding.

dmatech 5y ago

That's hardly the only option. They could simply lock the accounts in question without vanishing all data associated with them. This is how bans have historically worked. The Twitter approach of hiding everything is a counterproductive anomaly.

uberman 5y ago
If Github was legally bound to suspend these accounts and that is how their suspend is implemented then yes, it was the only option.

cinntaile 5y ago

I think this needs to be highlighted more. Now github takes a lot of the blame while they are simply complying with the regulations. Maybe they should display something similar to what is shown when a warez website gets taken down by the authorities. I also think they need to receive a warning before this is implemented, so that they have time to move over to another platform. I hope this was done.

ttybird2 5y ago

"Everyone knows where the real blame lies" Github basically gaslighting people into thinking that certain things (eg pull requests) never actually existed? It most certainly is the fault of github, they could have handled it way better. Nice "scare quotes" at the end btw.

uberman 5y ago
No one is attempting to convince you that a PR never existed. This is just how Github account suspension works. If they allowed PR to stand it would hardly be viewed as legally ceasing interaction with sanctioned entities. I put "scare quotes" as you call them to highlight the fact that the overwhelming majority of Russians support the war in Ukraine. Even in independent polling.

tpoacher 5y ago

You can be 100% correct in all of the above, and it can still be true that Github cannot be trusted, in the manner that the article states. If anything, you're not really arguing against the article's claim; you're simply explaining why they cannot be trusted but can't help it. "The guy whose real fault it is" or whatever is a bit of a red herring in this context.

uberman 5y ago
I guess we can agree to disagree. I feel a claim that Github cannot be trusted because they obey the law seems to be disingenuous.

hollerith 5y ago

>Everyone knows where the real blame lies Honest question: do you mean Russia or do you mean the US for imposing sanctions that fail to give companies enough flexibility to do the right thing?

uberman 5y ago
Putin and by proxy Russia, and I am kind of stunned that there would be any question about where the root cause lies. You can't possibly be suggesting that US law should include some random provider that would allow individuals the affordance to obey as they felt comfy about.
Sakos 5y ago
Why would anybody else be at fault when Putin started a war that has already killed thousands of civilians and lead to the rape and/or torture of countless people?