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The real crime is that "safety" regulators still require a child be kept in the back seat. It is an outdated regulation that makes no sense, unless your car is

The real crime is that "safety" regulators still require a child be kept in the back seat. It is an outdated regulation that makes no sense, unless your car is more than 10 years old.

jxramos 4y ago
What do the new cars offer exactly? I always understood it as to shield a child from the power of the airbags that are present in the front seat. Is there some mechanism that's changed for that seating with respect to air bag deployment?
- Drunk_Engineer 4y ago
  There is a weight sensor built into the front passenger seat.
- bombcar 4y ago
  I assume it's because modern cars have weight sensors for the airbags, but they don't always work.
- a4isms 4y ago
  Some vehicles have a specific method of disabling the passenger seat air bag. Outside of the desire to place a baby seat there, some passengers may have a medical condition such that their risk of death is higher if the airbag deploys than if it doesn't. In most jurisdictions, it is still illegal to put a baby or very small child in the passenger seat. I can't speak for anyone else, but in my own case, I think the risk of forgetting to turn it off when a child is riding in the front seat is going to be much higher than the risk of forgetting my child in the rear seat. That's really the calculus: How is it that we think we could forget that our child is in the back seat, but remember to disengage the air bag every time we put their seat in the front?
michaelmior 4y ago
My understanding is that the concern is that the passenger airbag can do serious damage to a child sitting in the front. You seem to be suggesting this is no longer the case. What has changed that now makes this safe?.
- Arrath 4y ago
  Aren't you meant to install child seats facing backwards, if you install them in the front passenger seat? Thus the mass of the seat itself shields the child from the airbag.
  - detaro 4y ago
    backwards-facing car seats for small children are way worse if an airbag triggers, because the airbag basically directly hits it and fires the seat backwards. They should only ever be used if the airbag is deactivated.
    - Arrath 4y ago
      Good to know, I was just recalling the instruction pictograms on the passenger sun shade.
- dandellion 4y ago
  Airbags are triggered electronically, not mechanically right? Then it should be possible to disable the passenger airbag only when a child car seat is attached.
  - luke2m 4y ago
    Most cars do this based on weight.
  - acranox 4y ago
    They already do that. There are weight and position sensors in the passenger seat that will disable the airbag if it detects an object under certain weight and height parameters. The airbag won’t go off if the seat is empty either. If you want a simple example, put a 40lb box of paper or books in the passenger seat and buckle the seat belt. You’ll see that the light on the dash will indicate the passenger airbag is off. I could describe how the system works in more detail, but if your genuinely interested, Im sure there are some good resources on the internet that explain it better than I would.
ilikecakeandpie 4y ago
In the US, the average age of a car on the road is 12 years and and 25% are older than 16 years. Maybe in a decade we can change the regulation but it seems to still have merit now
codingdave 4y ago
Require? I thought in most US states it was a recommendation, not a regulation. Admittedly, CA is one of the states where it is a regulation, and there are a decent number of people on HN from CA.
sonofhans 4y ago
A child in the middle of the backseat is the maximum distance from every exterior surface of the car. It is the safest place in the car. Putting kids in the front seat only works for one kid, only if there’s one adult, and only if the front airbag can be disabled.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
Isofix isn’t some sort of trendsetter, but only last few years I’ve noticed they are fitted in front passenger seat.

The real crime is that "safety" regulators still require a child be kept in the back seat. It is an outdated regulation that makes no sense, unless your car is more than 10 years old.

jxramos 4y ago

What do the new cars offer exactly? I always understood it as to shield a child from the power of the airbags that are present in the front seat. Is there some mechanism that's changed for that seating with respect to air bag deployment?

Drunk_Engineer 4y ago
There is a weight sensor built into the front passenger seat.
bombcar 4y ago
I assume it's because modern cars have weight sensors for the airbags, but they don't always work.
a4isms 4y ago
Some vehicles have a specific method of disabling the passenger seat air bag. Outside of the desire to place a baby seat there, some passengers may have a medical condition such that their risk of death is higher if the airbag deploys than if it doesn't. In most jurisdictions, it is still illegal to put a baby or very small child in the passenger seat. I can't speak for anyone else, but in my own case, I think the risk of forgetting to turn it off when a child is riding in the front seat is going to be much higher than the risk of forgetting my child in the rear seat. That's really the calculus: How is it that we think we could forget that our child is in the back seat, but remember to disengage the air bag every time we put their seat in the front?

michaelmior 4y ago

My understanding is that the concern is that the passenger airbag can do serious damage to a child sitting in the front. You seem to be suggesting this is no longer the case. What has changed that now makes this safe?.

Arrath 4y ago
Aren't you meant to install child seats facing backwards, if you install them in the front passenger seat? Thus the mass of the seat itself shields the child from the airbag.
- detaro 4y ago
  backwards-facing car seats for small children are way worse if an airbag triggers, because the airbag basically directly hits it and fires the seat backwards. They should only ever be used if the airbag is deactivated.
  - Arrath 4y ago
    Good to know, I was just recalling the instruction pictograms on the passenger sun shade.
dandellion 4y ago
Airbags are triggered electronically, not mechanically right? Then it should be possible to disable the passenger airbag only when a child car seat is attached.
- luke2m 4y ago
  Most cars do this based on weight.
- acranox 4y ago
  They already do that. There are weight and position sensors in the passenger seat that will disable the airbag if it detects an object under certain weight and height parameters. The airbag won’t go off if the seat is empty either. If you want a simple example, put a 40lb box of paper or books in the passenger seat and buckle the seat belt. You’ll see that the light on the dash will indicate the passenger airbag is off. I could describe how the system works in more detail, but if your genuinely interested, Im sure there are some good resources on the internet that explain it better than I would.

ilikecakeandpie 4y ago

In the US, the average age of a car on the road is 12 years and and 25% are older than 16 years. Maybe in a decade we can change the regulation but it seems to still have merit now

codingdave 4y ago

Require? I thought in most US states it was a recommendation, not a regulation. Admittedly, CA is one of the states where it is a regulation, and there are a decent number of people on HN from CA.

sonofhans 4y ago

A child in the middle of the backseat is the maximum distance from every exterior surface of the car. It is the safest place in the car. Putting kids in the front seat only works for one kid, only if there’s one adult, and only if the front airbag can be disabled.

dzhiurgis 4y ago

Isofix isn’t some sort of trendsetter, but only last few years I’ve noticed they are fitted in front passenger seat.