3 ms·

If the SAT was so easy (and I agree that it is), what's the big deal? It's 3 hours of your life and costs under 50 bucks (and they waive the fee if you can sho

by smanek 18y ago

If the SAT was so easy (and I agree that it is), what's the big deal? It's 3 hours of your life and costs under 50 bucks (and they waive the fee if you can show need). You didn't have to spend a huge amount of time studying or money taking prep courses. Your rant reminds me of professional programmers who get insulted when asked to do fizz-buzz during an interview. What's the big deal? It's the quickest and easiest way to weed out the riff-raff. In my experience, the ones who get insulted are usually the ones who can't do it.

KevinMS 18y ago
Some people that score well on interview tests are the worst fuckuppited programmers you'd never want to work with. And some who blow it are a pleasure to work with. Those little tests don't account for documentation, architecture, scalability, readability, refactoring, etc. I don't give a damn if somebody can't come up with some little algorithm during the pressure of a test that could have easily just googled for, and also what is the best practices for that algorithm. You are probably somebody new to the industry.
- smanek 18y ago
  Like I said, simple tests always have false positives. Of course a lot of poor coders can do fizz buzz. But, if you can't code fizz buzz in under five minutes, I guarantee you are a bad coder. It's a simple way to eliminate half your applicants. Sounds good to me.
- silencio 18y ago
  That's exactly how I feel. Fizzbuzz and the SAT alike are to me just filling some very limited uses where they would come in handy - like if you ever DID ask fizzbuzz from an interviewee you'd at most be able to weed out people who don't know what the heck they're talking about, like some moron applying for a Java position that knows no Java. But to me the difference is that the SAT is like fizzbuzz applied to everyone regardless...if you had an interviewee that you knew in every way that fizzbuzz would be a waste of time (even that tiny amount of time) because they've proved themselves in some other way, you wouldn't ask. That's pretty much all I'm wanting. Some things are just not worth the effort because there's plenty else to see who they are and what they are capable of doing.
silencio 18y ago
Actually, I don't think fizz-buzz is the same as the SAT. You only get so much time with the person you're interviewing and fizz-buzz is at least a basic way to screen people out. You can of course ask them questions more difficult...but in the end it's all applicable to what they're applying for. I've never been insulted by someone asking me that kind of interview question before. On the other hand, when I've already taken multiple semesters of advanced math classes and they want to know how well I score on a few dozen algebra questions, I find that slightly disturbing. If they wanted SAT Math 2 scores, I might understand. Otherwise it is pretty weird. Also, a few years ago in high school my parents offered to pay for prep classes and I decided to because I didn't have much else to do during most of the summer. What was even more striking was that people NOT taking prep classes were in the minority - the only ones that didn't were the ones that were confident they could do it on their own. Even the poor ones managed to borrow a book or two to study.
- smanek 18y ago
  The SAT was trivial in the exact same way fizz buzz in. It isn't meant to find the next Einstein, it's just meant to weed out the grossly incompetent. A lot of stupid people can probably do well on SAT math because it's too easy. But I promise that it you can't score at least a 700 on it (i.e., demonstrate basic competence at elementary algebra) you are bad at math, no exceptions. Exactly like a lot of stupid people can do fizz buzz, but if you can't do fizz buzz you are bad at programming.
  - silencio 18y ago
    I've mentioned this before..you are right, but do you ask fizzbuzz of every single programmer you interview? There had to be some where it was like..shit, it would be a total waste of time for everyone involved to ask something that trivial. But when you have years of high school or college, unless there's something huge missing, I don't know about how useful it would be to ask of it from everyone. For the record, I almost fell asleep taking the SAT. It's been a while, but I think I scored a 790 on math. I vividly remember some of the people in the same room as me who were really worried they couldn't even break 5/600. Sooo...

by smanek 18y ago

KevinMS 18y ago

Some people that score well on interview tests are the worst fuckuppited programmers you'd never want to work with. And some who blow it are a pleasure to work with. Those little tests don't account for documentation, architecture, scalability, readability, refactoring, etc. I don't give a damn if somebody can't come up with some little algorithm during the pressure of a test that could have easily just googled for, and also what is the best practices for that algorithm. You are probably somebody new to the industry.

smanek 18y ago
Like I said, simple tests always have false positives. Of course a lot of poor coders can do fizz buzz. But, if you can't code fizz buzz in under five minutes, I guarantee you are a bad coder. It's a simple way to eliminate half your applicants. Sounds good to me.
silencio 18y ago
That's exactly how I feel. Fizzbuzz and the SAT alike are to me just filling some very limited uses where they would come in handy - like if you ever DID ask fizzbuzz from an interviewee you'd at most be able to weed out people who don't know what the heck they're talking about, like some moron applying for a Java position that knows no Java. But to me the difference is that the SAT is like fizzbuzz applied to everyone regardless...if you had an interviewee that you knew in every way that fizzbuzz would be a waste of time (even that tiny amount of time) because they've proved themselves in some other way, you wouldn't ask. That's pretty much all I'm wanting. Some things are just not worth the effort because there's plenty else to see who they are and what they are capable of doing.

silencio 18y ago

Actually, I don't think fizz-buzz is the same as the SAT. You only get so much time with the person you're interviewing and fizz-buzz is at least a basic way to screen people out. You can of course ask them questions more difficult...but in the end it's all applicable to what they're applying for. I've never been insulted by someone asking me that kind of interview question before. On the other hand, when I've already taken multiple semesters of advanced math classes and they want to know how well I score on a few dozen algebra questions, I find that slightly disturbing. If they wanted SAT Math 2 scores, I might understand. Otherwise it is pretty weird. Also, a few years ago in high school my parents offered to pay for prep classes and I decided to because I didn't have much else to do during most of the summer. What was even more striking was that people NOT taking prep classes were in the minority - the only ones that didn't were the ones that were confident they could do it on their own. Even the poor ones managed to borrow a book or two to study.

smanek 18y ago
The SAT was trivial in the exact same way fizz buzz in. It isn't meant to find the next Einstein, it's just meant to weed out the grossly incompetent. A lot of stupid people can probably do well on SAT math because it's too easy. But I promise that it you can't score at least a 700 on it (i.e., demonstrate basic competence at elementary algebra) you are bad at math, no exceptions. Exactly like a lot of stupid people can do fizz buzz, but if you can't do fizz buzz you are bad at programming.
- silencio 18y ago
  I've mentioned this before..you are right, but do you ask fizzbuzz of every single programmer you interview? There had to be some where it was like..shit, it would be a total waste of time for everyone involved to ask something that trivial. But when you have years of high school or college, unless there's something huge missing, I don't know about how useful it would be to ask of it from everyone. For the record, I almost fell asleep taking the SAT. It's been a while, but I think I scored a 790 on math. I vividly remember some of the people in the same room as me who were really worried they couldn't even break 5/600. Sooo...