8 ms·

GitHub suspending Russian accounts, deleted project history and pull requests

74 points by ivank 4y ago

iisaev 4y ago
IMO, this makes all the praising about open source ideals promoted by GitHub a complete bullshit. “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
- VincentEvans 4y ago
  On the subject of “open source ideals” that you’ve mentioned in your post… tangentially related, I admit, but I’ve often noticed Russian use of Western liberal principles against the West itself, and then when the limit is reached and the West is forced to react - gleefully pointing out the West’s alleged hypocrisy. “Ahh, see - they muzzled our state sanctioned and financed unconstrained hate propaganda - so much for their famed freedom of speech!”. Were the West to fail to react - that too would then be just as gleefully celebrated as how dumb, or naive, or lazy, or weak the West is. Nothing is without limits and rational people understand that for us all to enjoy some of these ideals - it is necessary for all participants to make a good faith effort to uphold the founding principles. I think Russia will suffer the consequences for decades. After the hostilities end - the litigation for war crimes, compensation for victims, reparations etc will begin. All under the climate of relentless sanctions and general pivot away from economic cooperation with Russia. Expecting that meanwhile all this is happening - everything will remain the same in respect to services rendered by Github seems to be a bit tone deaf. TLDR: to see this HN topic in context, one needs to read the news covering events in Ukraine. It’s not arbitrary, but an unsurprising consequence.
rurban 4y ago
That's why I have a cronjob syncing all my issues, PR's locally via git bug bridge
- Isslam1 4y ago
  How did you do that?
  - ergl 4y ago
    OP mentioned git-bug, which seems to be this: https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug
    - throwaway81523 4y ago
      Wasn't familiar with git-bug but an email reflector would be another approach.
uberman 4y ago
They are clearly not applying a blanket suspend all Russian accounts policy but rather one that attempts to address accounts with some kind of tie to sanctioned Russian companies. Github/Microsoft is a US based company and likely feels legally compelled to take these actions. In fact they say this: At the same time, we are taking action to support our platform and comply with the many government mandates you’ve likely read about in the context of this war. Our legal team examines such mandates thoroughly, and we are complying with export controls and trade regulations as they evolve. This includes implementing stringent new export controls that are aimed at severely restricting Russia’s access to technologies and other items it needs to sustain its aggressive military capabilities. That's the end of it full stop. I'm sorry this inconvenienced some open source project but this is how things like an account suspension work. This is not the death of open source or the fault of Github. Everyone knows where the real blame lies and rather than bitch about being inconvenienced by the response, the open source author should direct their anger there. Yes, "innocent" Russians are getting swept up by the response and that sucks.
- no-s 4y ago
  >Everyone knows where the real blame lies and rather than bitch about being inconvenienced by the response, the open source author should direct their anger there. Yes, "innocent" Russians are getting swept up by the response and that sucks. Do you mean “Ostracize Russian citizens individually as a proxy for ostracizing Putin?”
  - uberman 4y ago
    The overwhelming majority of Russian citizens support both the war and Putin. One need not take Russian polling's word for it. Even independent polling suggests Putin enjoys wide support and that only 23% of Russians oppose the war in Ukraine. While there are certainly oligarchs (who have the most to loose) who have spoken out against the war, the "Z" branding is very popular in Russia with influencers and athletes brandishing it brazenly in their respective forums. So yes, I recognize that not every Russian supports the war or Putin and that sucks for them. The reality is that the vast majority do. Pressure on Russians puts pressure on Putin and likely in a way that is more effective that hoping that the next impounded mega-yacht was actually his.
hulitu 4y ago
" But when it came time to write the release notes, I noticed very bizarre behavior. Mysteriously, some pull requests were deleted. Poof. Gone. Then I realized that an entire contributor’s presence had disappeared " Stalin was bad when he erased people from history.
- vba616 4y ago
  Earlier this year, Putin gave a speech about why Russia was invading Ukraine that went on and on about history, but conspicuously, even flagrantly, omitted any mention of the Nazi-Soviet pact. It's clear this is a very sore point for many Russians, and a lot of anti-US propaganda I'm beginning to think is overcompensation for feelings about this history, rather than a calculated, rational strategy of psychological manipulation.
- bckbyunpopulard 4y ago
inglor_cz 4y ago
Does that mean that they retroactively deleted edits made by those Russians too? So when said person fixed a bug, the bug is there again? Or the project does not compile anymore because the diff was too early in the history and mechanical removal broke the code even syntactically? Or are the edits kept, but the commit log is gone?
- yakak 4y ago
  I don't think they tampered with git in any way. If you work on a git repo through GitHub there is corresponding data in GitHub tools which is now gone. Many existing repos have commits that came from syncing/cloning/etc repos hosted elsewhere, and these commits should look like that.
- progval 4y ago
  > The only thing left intact is the raw Git commit history.
no-s 4y ago
maybe another reason to have sock-puppet cutouts for everything. Maybe we shouldn’t allow the gov’t to sanction speech in the “1st" place, heheh. Maybe it’s not the Russians that are the problem...
- wojciii 4y ago
  The russians are a part of the problem. They are raping an European country. Perhaps this should learn Us to keep all our eggs in one basket. No matter how easy it is.
  - Macha 4y ago
    In this case, it's more like the eggs are distributed across every basket, such that any basket being taken away leads to problems.
  - yucky 4y ago
    >The russians are a part of the problem. They are raping an European country. I wonder if all US citizens are equally responsible for our military's reign of terror over the last couple of decades...
    - vba616 4y ago
      I think people have been saying for a long time that Americans are especially responsible because the US is a democracy and not a dictatorship. On the other hand, it is often claimed, and seems plausible to many, that the "military industrial complex" is kind of independent from elected representatives' control so citizens are helpless. Both these themes seem to be pushed by fringe political groups and anti-US propaganda. They are synergistic. Demoralizing anyone is best done by convincing them that all possible choices are evil and nothing can be improved. Regardless, the unseen power of this sort of discussion is how it maintains a false bubble where the US "reign of terror" is compared to this particular brutal war only. I haven't been paying attention myself to how Russia has been suppressing revolts, destroying cities, expelling ethnic groups, and backing separatists through the years, but since 1991, there have been something like ten conflicts involving the Russian Federation. Ten! Well, I had to look it up, but I was certain it was more than zero (plus Ukraine/Crimea). Chechnya alone accounts for two wars. Everything that anyone ever tries to convince you of these days is an unstated premise. Since everyone's completely immune to assertions by people they don't like.
Isslam1 4y ago
Unbelivable.
T3RMINATED 4y ago
andrewinardeer 4y ago
GitHub got a license from the US government to avoid sanctions to allow devs from Iran to interact with their platform. Obviously no license is available or GitHub is not applying for it for devs in Russia. https://github.blog/2021-01-05-advancing-developer-freedom-github-is-fully-available-in-iran/ https://github.blog/2021-01-05-advancing-developer-freedom-g...
- kurupt213 4y ago
  I understand suspending accounts, but I don’t understand deleting histories and breaking dependencies in non-sanctioned accounts
bckbyunpopulard 4y ago

74 points by ivank 4y ago

IMO, this makes all the praising about open source ideals promoted by GitHub a complete bullshit. “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

VincentEvans 4y ago
On the subject of “open source ideals” that you’ve mentioned in your post… tangentially related, I admit, but I’ve often noticed Russian use of Western liberal principles against the West itself, and then when the limit is reached and the West is forced to react - gleefully pointing out the West’s alleged hypocrisy. “Ahh, see - they muzzled our state sanctioned and financed unconstrained hate propaganda - so much for their famed freedom of speech!”. Were the West to fail to react - that too would then be just as gleefully celebrated as how dumb, or naive, or lazy, or weak the West is. Nothing is without limits and rational people understand that for us all to enjoy some of these ideals - it is necessary for all participants to make a good faith effort to uphold the founding principles. I think Russia will suffer the consequences for decades. After the hostilities end - the litigation for war crimes, compensation for victims, reparations etc will begin. All under the climate of relentless sanctions and general pivot away from economic cooperation with Russia. Expecting that meanwhile all this is happening - everything will remain the same in respect to services rendered by Github seems to be a bit tone deaf. TLDR: to see this HN topic in context, one needs to read the news covering events in Ukraine. It’s not arbitrary, but an unsurprising consequence.

rurban 4y ago

That's why I have a cronjob syncing all my issues, PR's locally via git bug bridge

Isslam1 4y ago
How did you do that?
- ergl 4y ago
  OP mentioned git-bug, which seems to be this: https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug
  - throwaway81523 4y ago
    Wasn't familiar with git-bug but an email reflector would be another approach.

uberman 4y ago

They are clearly not applying a blanket suspend all Russian accounts policy but rather one that attempts to address accounts with some kind of tie to sanctioned Russian companies. Github/Microsoft is a US based company and likely feels legally compelled to take these actions. In fact they say this: At the same time, we are taking action to support our platform and comply with the many government mandates you’ve likely read about in the context of this war. Our legal team examines such mandates thoroughly, and we are complying with export controls and trade regulations as they evolve. This includes implementing stringent new export controls that are aimed at severely restricting Russia’s access to technologies and other items it needs to sustain its aggressive military capabilities. That's the end of it full stop. I'm sorry this inconvenienced some open source project but this is how things like an account suspension work. This is not the death of open source or the fault of Github. Everyone knows where the real blame lies and rather than bitch about being inconvenienced by the response, the open source author should direct their anger there. Yes, "innocent" Russians are getting swept up by the response and that sucks.

no-s 4y ago
>Everyone knows where the real blame lies and rather than bitch about being inconvenienced by the response, the open source author should direct their anger there. Yes, "innocent" Russians are getting swept up by the response and that sucks. Do you mean “Ostracize Russian citizens individually as a proxy for ostracizing Putin?”
- uberman 4y ago
  The overwhelming majority of Russian citizens support both the war and Putin. One need not take Russian polling's word for it. Even independent polling suggests Putin enjoys wide support and that only 23% of Russians oppose the war in Ukraine. While there are certainly oligarchs (who have the most to loose) who have spoken out against the war, the "Z" branding is very popular in Russia with influencers and athletes brandishing it brazenly in their respective forums. So yes, I recognize that not every Russian supports the war or Putin and that sucks for them. The reality is that the vast majority do. Pressure on Russians puts pressure on Putin and likely in a way that is more effective that hoping that the next impounded mega-yacht was actually his.

hulitu 4y ago

" But when it came time to write the release notes, I noticed very bizarre behavior. Mysteriously, some pull requests were deleted. Poof. Gone. Then I realized that an entire contributor’s presence had disappeared " Stalin was bad when he erased people from history.

vba616 4y ago
Earlier this year, Putin gave a speech about why Russia was invading Ukraine that went on and on about history, but conspicuously, even flagrantly, omitted any mention of the Nazi-Soviet pact. It's clear this is a very sore point for many Russians, and a lot of anti-US propaganda I'm beginning to think is overcompensation for feelings about this history, rather than a calculated, rational strategy of psychological manipulation.
bckbyunpopulard 4y ago

inglor_cz 4y ago

Does that mean that they retroactively deleted edits made by those Russians too? So when said person fixed a bug, the bug is there again? Or the project does not compile anymore because the diff was too early in the history and mechanical removal broke the code even syntactically? Or are the edits kept, but the commit log is gone?

yakak 4y ago
I don't think they tampered with git in any way. If you work on a git repo through GitHub there is corresponding data in GitHub tools which is now gone. Many existing repos have commits that came from syncing/cloning/etc repos hosted elsewhere, and these commits should look like that.
progval 4y ago
> The only thing left intact is the raw Git commit history.

no-s 4y ago

maybe another reason to have sock-puppet cutouts for everything. Maybe we shouldn’t allow the gov’t to sanction speech in the “1st" place, heheh. Maybe it’s not the Russians that are the problem...

wojciii 4y ago
The russians are a part of the problem. They are raping an European country. Perhaps this should learn Us to keep all our eggs in one basket. No matter how easy it is.
- Macha 4y ago
  In this case, it's more like the eggs are distributed across every basket, such that any basket being taken away leads to problems.
- yucky 4y ago
  >The russians are a part of the problem. They are raping an European country. I wonder if all US citizens are equally responsible for our military's reign of terror over the last couple of decades...
  - vba616 4y ago
    I think people have been saying for a long time that Americans are especially responsible because the US is a democracy and not a dictatorship. On the other hand, it is often claimed, and seems plausible to many, that the "military industrial complex" is kind of independent from elected representatives' control so citizens are helpless. Both these themes seem to be pushed by fringe political groups and anti-US propaganda. They are synergistic. Demoralizing anyone is best done by convincing them that all possible choices are evil and nothing can be improved. Regardless, the unseen power of this sort of discussion is how it maintains a false bubble where the US "reign of terror" is compared to this particular brutal war only. I haven't been paying attention myself to how Russia has been suppressing revolts, destroying cities, expelling ethnic groups, and backing separatists through the years, but since 1991, there have been something like ten conflicts involving the Russian Federation. Ten! Well, I had to look it up, but I was certain it was more than zero (plus Ukraine/Crimea). Chechnya alone accounts for two wars. Everything that anyone ever tries to convince you of these days is an unstated premise. Since everyone's completely immune to assertions by people they don't like.

Isslam1 4y ago

Unbelivable.

T3RMINATED 4y ago

andrewinardeer 4y ago

GitHub got a license from the US government to avoid sanctions to allow devs from Iran to interact with their platform. Obviously no license is available or GitHub is not applying for it for devs in Russia. https://github.blog/2021-01-05-advancing-developer-freedom-github-is-fully-available-in-iran/ https://github.blog/2021-01-05-advancing-developer-freedom-g...

kurupt213 4y ago
I understand suspending accounts, but I don’t understand deleting histories and breaking dependencies in non-sanctioned accounts

bckbyunpopulard 4y ago