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Turns out that people who dislike brutalist living silos are often also the same people who think we have a housing crisis. You can't have everyone live in Bath

Turns out that people who dislike brutalist living silos are often also the same people who think we have a housing crisis. You can't have everyone live in Bath unless you demolish it and put Pruitt-Igoe 2.0 onto it. And as you've correctly pointed out: what then would be the attraction of any desirable place?

swayvil 5y ago
The problem is too many people. The question is, what horrible dystopian method are we gonna use for those who insist on breeding like rats? Forced sterilization? Containment ghettos? Euthanasia squads?... Yes, scary. But so are megablocks.
- beecafe 5y ago
  You should take the first step and kill yourself. Then we can talk about what others should do.
  - swayvil 5y ago
    The first step is to practice a little self-restraint with the baby-making, obviously.
    - vidarh 5y ago
      Just telling people to exercise self-restraint as a means to reduce fertility rates has historically never worked anywhere.
    - yywwbbn 5y ago
      Name a single developed country where to high birth rates are an issue? What? You can’t?
      - swayvil 5y ago
        Well usa is getting pretty packed. Visit any big city and it's all giant concrete hives and special roads so we can crawl over each other.
        vidarh 5y ago
        The US is 185th of 248th on Wikipedia's list of countries and dependencies by population density [1], and the US' fertility rate is well below replacement at less than 1.8 [2] (replacement is ca. 2.1), and hasn't exceeded replacement since 1972, which would imply US population growth is down to immigration. Your statement is also pretty nonsensical. If you visit the highest density spots in a country, then it's naturally going to be high density, and that tells you absolutely nothing about the overall density of the country. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... [2] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/fertility-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/fert...
        snapcaster 5y ago
        From your comments I think I understand your feelings on this issue, but please understand that you're ignoring reality and getting upset about something that isn't even happening. The population is dropping in many developed countries and fertility rates are plummeting. The world with fewer humans you seem to seek is already happening.
- hikingsimulator 5y ago
  Bravo, you'll make Malthus and eugenics peddlers proud...
  - swayvil 5y ago
    Then offer a better solution. Because humans stacked 1000 per acre emitting rivers of sewage is pretty bad too. If it wasn't so normal it would be hellish.
    - hikingsimulator 5y ago
      Why would I offer a solution to a problem that is non-existent. The world will have less population by the end of the century. You would make a more cogent point if instead you were asking about policies improving the quality of life of future people instead of defending genocidal ideas. Sadly you don't.
      - swayvil 5y ago
        First you tell me that my horrible solutions are horrible. Then you tell me that there isn't a problem. Your end seems to be the unreasonable one.
        8note 5y ago
        Your solutions are bad because they are trying to solve problems that don't exist. Before you start on a solution, understand your requirements and existing state of the art
- vidarh 5y ago
  The question is rather, what (possibly horrible, dystopian) methods will we use to prevent a demographic crisis as fertility rates are plummeting most places in the world, as most projections now suggest population decline will start within a century. Turns out the method that have worked the best against "those who insist on breeding like rats" is to treat them humanely, reduce childhood mortality, increase education and provide a more stable economic environment - do that and fertility rates plummet - with or without additional pressure like China's infamous one-child policy. As it stands, China is set to face decline within a decade or two despite having dropped their previous draconian measures to reduce fertility rates - their fertility rates are now slowly increasing, but they're still far below replacement. India is set to see decline ~3-4 decades later - they're now about at replacement, with fertility still dropping, but there's a lag of a few of decades from the decrease in fertility to population decline. Sub-saharan Africa will likely be last, but even those countries are seeing declining birth rates (e.g. even Niger, which has one of, if not the, highest fertility rates in the world is at around 6.6 births per woman now, but the rate peaked at 7.9 in 1983 and has been declining consistently since, currently at a rate of about 1.3% a year; UN projections suggest they'll reach ~4 by 2050, and around ~2.3, slightly above replacement, around year 2100) As a result, expect countries to start competing for immigrants, and to start increasingly desperate attempts to get people to have more children. E.g. China has gone from it's one-child policy to allowing three [1] in an attempt to stem the coming decline, with only little effect so far, and you can expect China will see additional policy changes to try to drive the fertility rates back up. [1] https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/06/07/chinas-declining-population-and-its-new-three-child-policy/ https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/06/07/chinas-declining-po...
- btbuildem 5y ago
  Education of girls and young women. That's it. That's the biggest ROI.
- somewhereoutth 5y ago
  This is a solved problem - provide education and empowerment for women. This is why advanced societies are seeing flat birth rates (indeed often declining).
orthoxerox 5y ago
Why not build more Baths next to the old one instead?
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  The Chinese did that. They ended up with still-overcrowded megacities and completely empty "new towns", which often featured fake, "beautifully" old architecture. It turns out that people don't just want affordable housing or nice surroundings, they also want pre-existing culture, something banlieus often lack. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in...
- burlesona 5y ago
  I don’t know about building codes in Britain, but in almost all of the US it would be illegal to build a carbon copy of the beloved older cities we have, because huge roads, parking lots, and setbacks are all mandatory.
  - julz_hk 5y ago
    And of course, these short-sighted car-centric ideas are all part of the problem. In North America there are planners and activists trying to change this[1] & world-wide, planners can achieve walkable, people-centric urban planning [2]. [1] - https://www.strongtowns.org https://www.strongtowns.org [2] - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

swayvil 5y ago

The problem is too many people. The question is, what horrible dystopian method are we gonna use for those who insist on breeding like rats? Forced sterilization? Containment ghettos? Euthanasia squads?... Yes, scary. But so are megablocks.

beecafe 5y ago
You should take the first step and kill yourself. Then we can talk about what others should do.
- swayvil 5y ago
  The first step is to practice a little self-restraint with the baby-making, obviously.
  - vidarh 5y ago
    Just telling people to exercise self-restraint as a means to reduce fertility rates has historically never worked anywhere.
  - yywwbbn 5y ago
    Name a single developed country where to high birth rates are an issue? What? You can’t?
    - swayvil 5y ago
      Well usa is getting pretty packed. Visit any big city and it's all giant concrete hives and special roads so we can crawl over each other.
      - vidarh 5y ago
        The US is 185th of 248th on Wikipedia's list of countries and dependencies by population density [1], and the US' fertility rate is well below replacement at less than 1.8 [2] (replacement is ca. 2.1), and hasn't exceeded replacement since 1972, which would imply US population growth is down to immigration. Your statement is also pretty nonsensical. If you visit the highest density spots in a country, then it's naturally going to be high density, and that tells you absolutely nothing about the overall density of the country. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... [2] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/fertility-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/fert...
      - snapcaster 5y ago
        From your comments I think I understand your feelings on this issue, but please understand that you're ignoring reality and getting upset about something that isn't even happening. The population is dropping in many developed countries and fertility rates are plummeting. The world with fewer humans you seem to seek is already happening.
hikingsimulator 5y ago
Bravo, you'll make Malthus and eugenics peddlers proud...
- swayvil 5y ago
  Then offer a better solution. Because humans stacked 1000 per acre emitting rivers of sewage is pretty bad too. If it wasn't so normal it would be hellish.
  - hikingsimulator 5y ago
    Why would I offer a solution to a problem that is non-existent. The world will have less population by the end of the century. You would make a more cogent point if instead you were asking about policies improving the quality of life of future people instead of defending genocidal ideas. Sadly you don't.
    - swayvil 5y ago
      First you tell me that my horrible solutions are horrible. Then you tell me that there isn't a problem. Your end seems to be the unreasonable one.
      - 8note 5y ago
        Your solutions are bad because they are trying to solve problems that don't exist. Before you start on a solution, understand your requirements and existing state of the art
vidarh 5y ago
The question is rather, what (possibly horrible, dystopian) methods will we use to prevent a demographic crisis as fertility rates are plummeting most places in the world, as most projections now suggest population decline will start within a century. Turns out the method that have worked the best against "those who insist on breeding like rats" is to treat them humanely, reduce childhood mortality, increase education and provide a more stable economic environment - do that and fertility rates plummet - with or without additional pressure like China's infamous one-child policy. As it stands, China is set to face decline within a decade or two despite having dropped their previous draconian measures to reduce fertility rates - their fertility rates are now slowly increasing, but they're still far below replacement. India is set to see decline ~3-4 decades later - they're now about at replacement, with fertility still dropping, but there's a lag of a few of decades from the decrease in fertility to population decline. Sub-saharan Africa will likely be last, but even those countries are seeing declining birth rates (e.g. even Niger, which has one of, if not the, highest fertility rates in the world is at around 6.6 births per woman now, but the rate peaked at 7.9 in 1983 and has been declining consistently since, currently at a rate of about 1.3% a year; UN projections suggest they'll reach ~4 by 2050, and around ~2.3, slightly above replacement, around year 2100) As a result, expect countries to start competing for immigrants, and to start increasingly desperate attempts to get people to have more children. E.g. China has gone from it's one-child policy to allowing three [1] in an attempt to stem the coming decline, with only little effect so far, and you can expect China will see additional policy changes to try to drive the fertility rates back up. [1] https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/06/07/chinas-declining-population-and-its-new-three-child-policy/ https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/06/07/chinas-declining-po...
btbuildem 5y ago
Education of girls and young women. That's it. That's the biggest ROI.
somewhereoutth 5y ago
This is a solved problem - provide education and empowerment for women. This is why advanced societies are seeing flat birth rates (indeed often declining).

orthoxerox 5y ago

Why not build more Baths next to the old one instead?

DocTomoe 5y ago
The Chinese did that. They ended up with still-overcrowded megacities and completely empty "new towns", which often featured fake, "beautifully" old architecture. It turns out that people don't just want affordable housing or nice surroundings, they also want pre-existing culture, something banlieus often lack. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-occupied_developments_in...
burlesona 5y ago
I don’t know about building codes in Britain, but in almost all of the US it would be illegal to build a carbon copy of the beloved older cities we have, because huge roads, parking lots, and setbacks are all mandatory.
- julz_hk 5y ago
  And of course, these short-sighted car-centric ideas are all part of the problem. In North America there are planners and activists trying to change this[1] & world-wide, planners can achieve walkable, people-centric urban planning [2]. [1] - https://www.strongtowns.org https://www.strongtowns.org [2] - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]