4 ms·

While I definitely think that binning off AM radio is a penny-wise but pound-foolish policy typical of the miserly post-2008 political landscape, if the band is

While I definitely think that binning off AM radio is a penny-wise but pound-foolish policy typical of the miserly post-2008 political landscape, if the band is fully abandoned in the near future I say we should open the top 150 kHz or so for hobbyists operating at a low power of around 50 W or so. I know amateur radio is a thing that exists but this would be aimed at music broadcasting which isn't the point of amateur radio. There should be a minimally bureaucratic licence from the government which allows for gatekeeping at a technical level and also squares things with copyright holders (PRS is the body for this in the UK). My reasoning is: * AM is so under-utilised now this idea wouldn't tread on many important commercial or IP toes, it'd be nerdy hobbyists like us on HN for the most part. People would be able to experience being on the 'real' radio (as opposed to streaming) without the undesirably chaotic situation that would happen if this was allowed for FM or digital radio broadcasting. * The barrier to entry for hobbyist listeners (as opposed to hobbyist broadcasters) is basically zero because everyone has an old radio capable of tuning the AM band in a cupboard somewhere - which gives this a great anti-ewaste environmental angle. The existence of webSDRs has made MW and SW DX-ing really accessible too. * Interference is so bad on the MW band now anyway thanks to modern electrical equipment putting out lots of noise, adding low power hobbyists to the mix is probably an 'in for a penny, in for a pound' kind of scenario. Like what damage can a few hundred hobbyists spread out over the country and limited to a low power realistically do when there's millions of cheap power supplies putting out more interference to MW than all of them put together? * AM has a really appealing subjective qualities in the same way other technologically inferior approaches like vinyl records and cassettes do. There's something really appealling to me about the way AM cracks when there's a distant thunderstorm or the way you have to get up and physically move the aerial to bring a distant station into audibility. It's a very hands-on thing, yes it sounds very lo-fi but I like that - it's lo-fi in a soft, gentle and pleasantly unpredictable way whereas when digital approaches sound cheap it's usually in a harsh and unpleasant way.

hilbert42 5y ago
"...if the band is fully abandoned in the near future I say we should open the top 150 kHz or so for hobbyists operating at a low power of around 50 W or so." About 20 or so years ago I suggested to radio amateurs to set up a network for earthquake research but there were no takers back then. It's known that often before an earthquake that highly stressed rock can radiate low frequency electromagnetic fields. If a widespread network of low frequency listening stations were established around the world then it's just possible that these waves could be detected before an earthquake begins within sufficient time to give vulnerable people adequate warning. Because of the still-experimental nature of such research it is unlikely that governments or commercial operators could justify the funds necessary to set up sufficient (or the necessary) number of listening stations worldwide for the scheme to work (at least initially until proven to work). The solution: use the amateur radio network. Not only would it be in keeping with the longstanding ethos of amateur radio operators supplying emergency communications during disasters but also it would interest many radio amateurs from a scientific stance. The way I'd envision it to work is that amateur stations would set up (VLF) very low frequency transmitters to act as beacons in a sort of cellular grid where a station would continually monitor one frequency and transmit on another (multiple frequencies being necessary so transmitters and receivers can be used simultaneously at each station (location)). When the transmission path is such that a signal is either received and or its signal varies with a signature that's characteristic of an earthquake then warnings can be issued. It's my understanding that the transmission frequencies necessary would need to be much lower than any amateur band currently issued or agreed upon by the ITU, etc. (i.e.: in the 10s of kHz or so), so new amateur bands may have to be issued (initially, they could be allocated on a trial or experiential basis). It seems to me that perhaps geologists, scientists and engineers with an interest in electronics or radio communications may wish to follow up this idea.
- Johnythree 5y ago
  Monitoring for earthquake research is a great idea but there's no need to base it on Amateur Radio, as there is no shortage of Military VLF transmitters to monitor. There have long been enthusiastic groups of shortwave listeners involved in such projects, for instance there's a world-wide group of VLF listeners who are interested in sudden ionospheric disturbances (SID). see https://physicsopenlab.org/2020/05/07/vlf-receiver-for-sid-monitoring/ https://physicsopenlab.org/2020/05/07/vlf-receiver-for-sid-m... Also have a look at the "Natural Radio & VLF Group" at VLF@groups.io You might be surprised to hear that there is an active group of enthusiasts who are now transmitting over thousands of miles using ELF wavelengths (eg audio frequencies) that are not in any existing Amateur radio bands. see http://abelian.org/ebnaut/ http://abelian.org/ebnaut/ and https://naturalradiolab.com/ https://naturalradiolab.com/ And FWIW, in recent years Amateur Radio operators world wide have been granted access to a number of VLF radio bands, eg the new 137kHz band.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    Thanks for that, obviously I've not been keeping up with recent developments. When I asked some of those who were supposedly in the know (radio amateurs) a few years back if there had been any effective (actual) earthquake warnings they resounded with a define 'no' so I reckoned that it was a fair assumption that there were still insufficient monitoring stations listening or that no one was transmitting on suitable frequencies to detect any such signals/earthquake detections. I've not heard anything to the contrary since then (published in Science, etc.). So far, I've only had the most cursory glance at your links but I didn't see any references except for a short comment to the effect that there was 'nothing conclusive yet'.
    - Johnythree 4y ago
      I think the problem is that you asked the wrong group. Amateur Radio operators have a huge range of interests, but Earthquake monitoring and SIDs are very much in the province of Shortwave Listeners, eg the very active VLF group at VLF@groups.io There is some overlap, but the prime focus is on different frequency bands and different areas of propagation research. And FWIW, there is a large and active interest in VLF propagation research coming from the various universities, particularly centered on Arctic/Antarctic monitoring stations.

hilbert42 5y ago

"...if the band is fully abandoned in the near future I say we should open the top 150 kHz or so for hobbyists operating at a low power of around 50 W or so." About 20 or so years ago I suggested to radio amateurs to set up a network for earthquake research but there were no takers back then. It's known that often before an earthquake that highly stressed rock can radiate low frequency electromagnetic fields. If a widespread network of low frequency listening stations were established around the world then it's just possible that these waves could be detected before an earthquake begins within sufficient time to give vulnerable people adequate warning. Because of the still-experimental nature of such research it is unlikely that governments or commercial operators could justify the funds necessary to set up sufficient (or the necessary) number of listening stations worldwide for the scheme to work (at least initially until proven to work). The solution: use the amateur radio network. Not only would it be in keeping with the longstanding ethos of amateur radio operators supplying emergency communications during disasters but also it would interest many radio amateurs from a scientific stance. The way I'd envision it to work is that amateur stations would set up (VLF) very low frequency transmitters to act as beacons in a sort of cellular grid where a station would continually monitor one frequency and transmit on another (multiple frequencies being necessary so transmitters and receivers can be used simultaneously at each station (location)). When the transmission path is such that a signal is either received and or its signal varies with a signature that's characteristic of an earthquake then warnings can be issued. It's my understanding that the transmission frequencies necessary would need to be much lower than any amateur band currently issued or agreed upon by the ITU, etc. (i.e.: in the 10s of kHz or so), so new amateur bands may have to be issued (initially, they could be allocated on a trial or experiential basis). It seems to me that perhaps geologists, scientists and engineers with an interest in electronics or radio communications may wish to follow up this idea.

Johnythree 5y ago
Monitoring for earthquake research is a great idea but there's no need to base it on Amateur Radio, as there is no shortage of Military VLF transmitters to monitor. There have long been enthusiastic groups of shortwave listeners involved in such projects, for instance there's a world-wide group of VLF listeners who are interested in sudden ionospheric disturbances (SID). see https://physicsopenlab.org/2020/05/07/vlf-receiver-for-sid-monitoring/ https://physicsopenlab.org/2020/05/07/vlf-receiver-for-sid-m... Also have a look at the "Natural Radio & VLF Group" at VLF@groups.io You might be surprised to hear that there is an active group of enthusiasts who are now transmitting over thousands of miles using ELF wavelengths (eg audio frequencies) that are not in any existing Amateur radio bands. see http://abelian.org/ebnaut/ http://abelian.org/ebnaut/ and https://naturalradiolab.com/ https://naturalradiolab.com/ And FWIW, in recent years Amateur Radio operators world wide have been granted access to a number of VLF radio bands, eg the new 137kHz band.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  Thanks for that, obviously I've not been keeping up with recent developments. When I asked some of those who were supposedly in the know (radio amateurs) a few years back if there had been any effective (actual) earthquake warnings they resounded with a define 'no' so I reckoned that it was a fair assumption that there were still insufficient monitoring stations listening or that no one was transmitting on suitable frequencies to detect any such signals/earthquake detections. I've not heard anything to the contrary since then (published in Science, etc.). So far, I've only had the most cursory glance at your links but I didn't see any references except for a short comment to the effect that there was 'nothing conclusive yet'.
  - Johnythree 4y ago
    I think the problem is that you asked the wrong group. Amateur Radio operators have a huge range of interests, but Earthquake monitoring and SIDs are very much in the province of Shortwave Listeners, eg the very active VLF group at VLF@groups.io There is some overlap, but the prime focus is on different frequency bands and different areas of propagation research. And FWIW, there is a large and active interest in VLF propagation research coming from the various universities, particularly centered on Arctic/Antarctic monitoring stations.