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>It has been a decade of dumb claims and ridiculous assertions from the pro-crypto crowd. Agreed. For me it was the NFT'ing of a fart that was the jumping the

>It has been a decade of dumb claims and ridiculous assertions from the pro-crypto crowd. Agreed. For me it was the NFT'ing of a fart that was the jumping the shark moment that drove me from being merely a crypto skeptic to being vociferously anti-crypto and advocating against it at every turn.

sharperguy 5y ago
Funny because the bitcoin community hates NFTs just as much as the anti-crypto community.
- javert 5y ago
  The bitcoin community hates NFTs and shitcoins much more than the anti-crypto community does. I'm basically an anti-crypto bitcoiner.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  That's because NFTs are competing with BTC to lure in the newest money.
  - reedjosh 5y ago
    It's not about getting rich on Bitcoin, it's about taking back our choice of what money to use. Bitcoiners hate NFTs mostly because they give the whole space a bad rap.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      I fail to see the difference between what I said and "Bitcoiners hate NFTs mostly because they give the whole space a bad rap." Anyway, you have your choice of what money to use. I prefer USD and Euro myself. And I really still don't understand any use case for someone in a first world country to use crypto. I grant that 3rd world countries without banking systems may, may need it, but I don't know why we just wouldn't start banks there.
      - crypthrowaway1 5y ago
        > And I really still don't understand any use case for someone in a first world country to use crypto. Hi. Here is a use case you can carry on to future discussions. There is a flourishing scene of dark net markets where people can purchase drugs using cryptocurrency. Merchants have reviews, products have reviews, and the whole process is much safer, secure, and convenient than meeting a drug dealer in real life with cash.
        DebtDeflation 5y ago
        Except (at least in the case of BTC) that transaction will be permanently recorded on an indelible blockchain for everyone to see. Such security and privacy.
        reedjosh 5y ago
        Bitcoin Lighting Network and Monero ftw. Bitcoin is not yet perfect. Hopefully someday. Monero however is pretty great privacy wise.
        rvz 5y ago
        > Bitcoin Lighting Network and Monero ftw. Two things: 1. Bitcoin Lightning is not Bitcoin and is in fact a centralized by design layer 2 system which the transactions are off-chain [0][1], a direct contradiction to what Bitcoin was designed for. A peer-to-peer on-chain electronic cash system. 2. Monero and the other privacy coins are getting delisted and banned from exchanges due to increasing regulations. [2][3][4] You can still use Monero, but the on-ramps, exchanges will have banned the privacy coins under these regulations, cutting a way to easily exchange it for fiat. [0] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062 [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2201.07746.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2201.07746.pdf [2] https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/monero-kraken-crypto-exchange-delist-privacy-coin-uk-fca-regulation-2021-11 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/monero-k... [3] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021/12/01/anti-money-laundering-council-agrees-its-negotiating-mandate-on-transparency-of-crypto-asset-transfers/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021... [4] https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/03/31/eu-parliament-votes-on-privacy-busting-crypto-rules-industry-rails-against-proposals/ https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/03/31/eu-parliament-vot...
  - mr_spothawk 5y ago
    It's because NFTs are garbage, and only serve to enrich the preminers and shills.
trutannus 5y ago
Right, anyone can generate NFTs though. How does this differ from saying something like "the artist who called an empty room art is the jumping the shark moment, now I'm advocating against art at every turn"?
- isoprophlex 5y ago
  Because artists haven't generally backed themselves by weaponized ASICs and a very unhealthy social scene of greed and deception (not to mention pollution)
  - trutannus 5y ago
    > Because artists haven't generally backed themselves [into a] very unhealthy social scene of greed and deception Except they absolutely have. The contemporary art market is exactly what you describe. There's sharks sitting in tanks of embalming fluid being sold for tens of millions of dollars just to be put in storage, and people laundering their money in art investment schemes. The contemporary art market is absolutely an unhealthy social scene of greed and deception.
    - raspberry1337 5y ago
      You're absolutely right, and I personally find 'modern' art unappealing and a scam (banan on wall 30k plz), but this is because it is being used a commodity in a rotten, oligarchic financial system where we bail out corrupt bankers at the cost of the people. With crypto, the pollution is built into the system. It's not only being used by the corruption, it is itself rotten. And neither does some of it look nice on walls.
      - trutannus 5y ago
        > It's not only being used by the corruption, it is itself rotten. And neither does some of it look nice on walls. So is the contemporary art world. The contemporary art world is vastly polluting as well. How much GHG do you think is generated to run a museum, or warehouse, transport aircraft, ect, filled with bad contemporary art?
rglullis 5y ago
This is like saying that you dismissed the web after you saw the 100th clone of the million dollar home page.
- perlgeek 5y ago
  After the 100th clone of the million dollar home page, I would have dismissed the web, if there hadn't been also been hundreds of good/useful/entertaining websites around at that point.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Just like that for some of us working with web3, the amount of useful applications that come up more than make up for all the stupidity going on with the "NFT art" space.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      FWIW, I haven’t seen one “Web3” application. All I ever see is folks singing its potential from the rafters. Loudly. Perhaps the “web 3” evangelists can switch to show more of these apps, and the real world value they provide.
      - rglullis 5y ago
        fuzzer37 5y ago
        Neither of those solve any real problems. This is literally the classic crypto "Solution looking for a problem"
        JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > you haven't seen it, you were not interested in looking and I doubt that any "evangelist" is going to change your mind This is disingenuous. (Also, ENS appears to be functionally similar to App.net [1]. I'm open to being challenged on this.) One thing pervasively lacking from Web3 is compelling fiction. Not "this and that trustlessly," but a functional narrative of someone doing something useful or compelling they presently can't. VR has that. Crypto, not so much. Instead we have pitches of doing the same things one can currently do, but decentralised. (Again, see App.net.) That will be appealing for a certain political niche. But Truth Social for libertarians, while definitely worth something, isn't the narrative web3 wants. [1] http://daltoncaldwell.com/we-did-it http://daltoncaldwell.com/we-did-it
Capira 5y ago
Bitcoin is a groundbreaking invention. All the "cryptos" and NFTs are just scams.
- MezzoDelCammin 5y ago
  well, same could be said for Facebook. Only now, less than 20y later, we're all scrolling through endless feeds and digging comment section trenches of the latest culture wars
  - kredd 5y ago
    I wouldn’t say 20 years later. Facebook was the way of connecting with people you just met even after 10 years after its inception. I would even say, pretty much everyone I knew had a Facebook account in 2010, and it delivered on the claims it made. Whether we agree with their mission is a different topic, but it certainly had an impact on the real world.
  - antifa 5y ago
    Facebook is bad but unlike NFT it's utility exists.
- topranks 5y ago
  Bitcoin is no different than the other “cryptos”. Most of them are literally forks of it.
  - mr_spothawk 5y ago
    but, you're wrong. there are forks of bitcoin, to be sure... but the majority of "cryptos" out there are GPU mineable coins, because there's hardware that can be exploited to mine "profitably". not to mention the need to pre-mine shitcoins so they can be given to grifters and shills who pump & dump.
  - kayamon 5y ago
    Yes it is -- its blockchain is longer. The blockchain with the longest proof-of-work is always the real blockchain, when given multiple competing blockchains to select from. This is the essence of the Nakamoto Consensus Algorithm, which underpins the entirety of blockchain economics.
bombcar 5y ago
NFTs really seem to have been the sharkjump - for whatever reason that seems to be the point where anti crypto started to really take off.

sharperguy 5y ago

Funny because the bitcoin community hates NFTs just as much as the anti-crypto community.

javert 5y ago
The bitcoin community hates NFTs and shitcoins much more than the anti-crypto community does. I'm basically an anti-crypto bitcoiner.
HWR_14 5y ago
That's because NFTs are competing with BTC to lure in the newest money.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  It's not about getting rich on Bitcoin, it's about taking back our choice of what money to use. Bitcoiners hate NFTs mostly because they give the whole space a bad rap.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    I fail to see the difference between what I said and "Bitcoiners hate NFTs mostly because they give the whole space a bad rap." Anyway, you have your choice of what money to use. I prefer USD and Euro myself. And I really still don't understand any use case for someone in a first world country to use crypto. I grant that 3rd world countries without banking systems may, may need it, but I don't know why we just wouldn't start banks there.
    - crypthrowaway1 5y ago
      > And I really still don't understand any use case for someone in a first world country to use crypto. Hi. Here is a use case you can carry on to future discussions. There is a flourishing scene of dark net markets where people can purchase drugs using cryptocurrency. Merchants have reviews, products have reviews, and the whole process is much safer, secure, and convenient than meeting a drug dealer in real life with cash.
      - DebtDeflation 5y ago
        Except (at least in the case of BTC) that transaction will be permanently recorded on an indelible blockchain for everyone to see. Such security and privacy.
        reedjosh 5y ago
        Bitcoin Lighting Network and Monero ftw. Bitcoin is not yet perfect. Hopefully someday. Monero however is pretty great privacy wise.
        rvz 5y ago
        > Bitcoin Lighting Network and Monero ftw. Two things: 1. Bitcoin Lightning is not Bitcoin and is in fact a centralized by design layer 2 system which the transactions are off-chain [0][1], a direct contradiction to what Bitcoin was designed for. A peer-to-peer on-chain electronic cash system. 2. Monero and the other privacy coins are getting delisted and banned from exchanges due to increasing regulations. [2][3][4] You can still use Monero, but the on-ramps, exchanges will have banned the privacy coins under these regulations, cutting a way to easily exchange it for fiat. [0] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062 [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2201.07746.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2201.07746.pdf [2] https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/monero-kraken-crypto-exchange-delist-privacy-coin-uk-fca-regulation-2021-11 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/monero-k... [3] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021/12/01/anti-money-laundering-council-agrees-its-negotiating-mandate-on-transparency-of-crypto-asset-transfers/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021... [4] https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/03/31/eu-parliament-votes-on-privacy-busting-crypto-rules-industry-rails-against-proposals/ https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/03/31/eu-parliament-vot...
- mr_spothawk 5y ago
  It's because NFTs are garbage, and only serve to enrich the preminers and shills.

trutannus 5y ago

Right, anyone can generate NFTs though. How does this differ from saying something like "the artist who called an empty room art is the jumping the shark moment, now I'm advocating against art at every turn"?

isoprophlex 5y ago
Because artists haven't generally backed themselves by weaponized ASICs and a very unhealthy social scene of greed and deception (not to mention pollution)
- trutannus 5y ago
  > Because artists haven't generally backed themselves [into a] very unhealthy social scene of greed and deception Except they absolutely have. The contemporary art market is exactly what you describe. There's sharks sitting in tanks of embalming fluid being sold for tens of millions of dollars just to be put in storage, and people laundering their money in art investment schemes. The contemporary art market is absolutely an unhealthy social scene of greed and deception.
  - raspberry1337 5y ago
    You're absolutely right, and I personally find 'modern' art unappealing and a scam (banan on wall 30k plz), but this is because it is being used a commodity in a rotten, oligarchic financial system where we bail out corrupt bankers at the cost of the people. With crypto, the pollution is built into the system. It's not only being used by the corruption, it is itself rotten. And neither does some of it look nice on walls.
    - trutannus 5y ago
      > It's not only being used by the corruption, it is itself rotten. And neither does some of it look nice on walls. So is the contemporary art world. The contemporary art world is vastly polluting as well. How much GHG do you think is generated to run a museum, or warehouse, transport aircraft, ect, filled with bad contemporary art?

rglullis 5y ago

This is like saying that you dismissed the web after you saw the 100th clone of the million dollar home page.

perlgeek 5y ago
After the 100th clone of the million dollar home page, I would have dismissed the web, if there hadn't been also been hundreds of good/useful/entertaining websites around at that point.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Just like that for some of us working with web3, the amount of useful applications that come up more than make up for all the stupidity going on with the "NFT art" space.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    FWIW, I haven’t seen one “Web3” application. All I ever see is folks singing its potential from the rafters. Loudly. Perhaps the “web 3” evangelists can switch to show more of these apps, and the real world value they provide.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      - fuzzer37 5y ago
        Neither of those solve any real problems. This is literally the classic crypto "Solution looking for a problem"
      - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > you haven't seen it, you were not interested in looking and I doubt that any "evangelist" is going to change your mind This is disingenuous. (Also, ENS appears to be functionally similar to App.net [1]. I'm open to being challenged on this.) One thing pervasively lacking from Web3 is compelling fiction. Not "this and that trustlessly," but a functional narrative of someone doing something useful or compelling they presently can't. VR has that. Crypto, not so much. Instead we have pitches of doing the same things one can currently do, but decentralised. (Again, see App.net.) That will be appealing for a certain political niche. But Truth Social for libertarians, while definitely worth something, isn't the narrative web3 wants. [1] http://daltoncaldwell.com/we-did-it http://daltoncaldwell.com/we-did-it

Capira 5y ago

Bitcoin is a groundbreaking invention. All the "cryptos" and NFTs are just scams.

MezzoDelCammin 5y ago
well, same could be said for Facebook. Only now, less than 20y later, we're all scrolling through endless feeds and digging comment section trenches of the latest culture wars
- kredd 5y ago
  I wouldn’t say 20 years later. Facebook was the way of connecting with people you just met even after 10 years after its inception. I would even say, pretty much everyone I knew had a Facebook account in 2010, and it delivered on the claims it made. Whether we agree with their mission is a different topic, but it certainly had an impact on the real world.
- antifa 5y ago
  Facebook is bad but unlike NFT it's utility exists.
topranks 5y ago
Bitcoin is no different than the other “cryptos”. Most of them are literally forks of it.
- mr_spothawk 5y ago
  but, you're wrong. there are forks of bitcoin, to be sure... but the majority of "cryptos" out there are GPU mineable coins, because there's hardware that can be exploited to mine "profitably". not to mention the need to pre-mine shitcoins so they can be given to grifters and shills who pump & dump.
- kayamon 5y ago
  Yes it is -- its blockchain is longer. The blockchain with the longest proof-of-work is always the real blockchain, when given multiple competing blockchains to select from. This is the essence of the Nakamoto Consensus Algorithm, which underpins the entirety of blockchain economics.

bombcar 5y ago

NFTs really seem to have been the sharkjump - for whatever reason that seems to be the point where anti crypto started to really take off.